Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
cprompt
KVRian
687 posts since 17 Nov, 2010 from UK

Post Fri May 18, 2018 1:28 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
poleda wrote:Old video card, outdated drivers or operator error?
Now we're cooking :tu:
That definitely was a problem for me a couple of years ago. Waves uses OpenGL 2.1 (I think it is) for its graphics and an old graphics driver that does not fully support it will degrade performance. I upgraded my graphics card (nothing fancy, £20 I think it was) and the plugins have performed flawlessly ever since.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10510 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Fri May 18, 2018 2:38 am

cprompt wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
poleda wrote:Old video card, outdated drivers or operator error?
Now we're cooking :tu:
That definitely was a problem for me a couple of years ago. Waves uses OpenGL 2.1 (I think it is) for its graphics and an old graphics driver that does not fully support it will degrade performance. I upgraded my graphics card (nothing fancy, £20 I think it was) and the plugins have performed flawlessly ever since.
Thanks for the info.

Just so we are on the same page, can you give me an example of the what you experienced as degraded performance. And, subsequently, what characterises, "performed flawlessly"?

cprompt
KVRian
687 posts since 17 Nov, 2010 from UK

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Fri May 18, 2018 2:50 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:So we are on the same page, can you give me an example of the what you experienced as degraded performance. And, subsequently, what characterises, "performed flawlessly"?
Degraded performance for me was:

Sluggish UI updates - meters and knobs
Poor DAW performance

Strangely, I didn't have any issues when just one Waves plugin was open, but as soon as I opened two, Reaper did horrible things. I suspect it was because my graphics card wasn't OpenGL 2.1 compliant and either Waves OR the graphics driver was translating the OpenGL 2.1 calls to OpenGL 1 or something, putting a huge burden on the CPU. Yet, it was ok with just one Waves UI open (as far as I can recall anyway).

Bought a cheap but up-to-date card and they have performed flawlessly ever since.

This may not be your problem, but I do know that Waves are very graphics driver dependent.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10510 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Fri May 18, 2018 3:18 am

cprompt wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:So we are on the same page, can you give me an example of the what you experienced as degraded performance. And, subsequently, what characterises, "performed flawlessly"?
Degraded performance for me was:

Sluggish UI updates - meters and knobs
Poor DAW performance

Strangely, I didn't have any issues when just one Waves plugin was open, but as soon as I opened two, Reaper did horrible things. I suspect it was because my graphics card wasn't OpenGL 2.1 compliant and either Waves OR the graphics driver was translating the OpenGL 2.1 calls to OpenGL 1 or something, putting a huge burden on the CPU. Yet, it was ok with just one Waves UI open (as far as I can recall anyway).

Bought a cheap but up-to-date card and they have performed flawlessly ever since.

This may not be your problem, but I do know that Waves are very graphics driver dependent.
I don't think what I am referring to is the same as what you, and others, are referring to.

This is not sluggishness/heaviness, and doesn't come with the kind of lag like, for example, dragging a window around the screen and the window trailing the mouse, leaving trails (you know what I mean, right?).

I am not experiencing any high load issues, no matter how many instances of the plugin. Each instance is just as light, or heavy, as the other fifty I could easily load up.

The controls move quickly (too quickly, in some cases i.e the mouse-acceleration curve that I also mentioned).

If you have time, load up any Waves plugin. Then start turning a knob, slowly, while watching both the knob move and how that correlates to the numbers in the accompanying box. You 'should' notice the numbers move smoothly and accurately, but also notice that you 'should' be able to adjust quite a bit before the knob actually makes any movement.

p.s My graphics card, despite being old, apparently supports Open-GL to 4.something, and I have just updated my drivers to the most latest that my current os will support :tu:

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Klinke1
KVRian
601 posts since 19 Feb, 2011

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Fri May 18, 2018 6:26 am

Yes..but does the chainsaw in Doom perform really smooth when you slice up some monsters?
- WonderEcho -

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10510 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Fri May 18, 2018 6:53 am

Klinke1 wrote:Yes..but does the chainsaw in Doom perform really smooth when you slice up some monsters?
Fortunately for you, Native Instruments do know what they are doing. However, if you want the next iteration of your delay to have knobs that move like a granny with arthritis and fat ankles, perhaps you could make a special request to them :tu:

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Klinke1
KVRian
601 posts since 19 Feb, 2011

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Fri May 18, 2018 12:28 pm

I just suggested/implied, that supporting OpenGLxy does not tell alot about the performance.
- WonderEcho -

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10510 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Fri May 18, 2018 12:35 pm

Klinke1 wrote:I just suggested/implied, that supporting OpenGLxy does not tell alot about the performance.
I think this OpenGL/performance theory, as pertains to the particular issue I am referring to, is a red herring.

Do you own any Waves plugins?

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Klinke1
KVRian
601 posts since 19 Feb, 2011

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Fri May 18, 2018 12:39 pm

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: I think this OpenGL/performance theory, as pertains to the particular issue I am referring to, is a red herring.

Do you own any Waves plugins?
20 when you also count the free VU-meter. All V9

Windows10 with NVidia card
Last edited by Klinke1 on Fri May 18, 2018 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- WonderEcho -

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10510 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Fri May 18, 2018 12:43 pm

Forget it :shrug:

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Klinke1
KVRian
601 posts since 19 Feb, 2011

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Fri May 18, 2018 12:58 pm

"If you have time, load up any Waves plugin. Then start turning a knob, slowly, while watching both the knob move and how that correlates to the numbers in the accompanying box. You 'should' notice the numbers move smoothly and accurately, but also notice that you 'should' be able to adjust quite a bit before the knob actually makes any movement."

The knob and value reacts instantly when slightly adjusted with mouse.
(It can get a little jumpy when you dial fast like i explained earlier)

----
Chainsaw performance matters.. the blood must flow really smooth.
Or you cannot be sure your Waves plug-ins work alright. (but that's common sense...obviously.. ;) )
Imho...
- WonderEcho -

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10510 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Fri May 18, 2018 1:11 pm

Klinke1 wrote:The knob and value reacts instantly when slightly adjusted with mouse.
(It can get a little jumpy when you dial fast like i explained earlier)
so, for every slight change in numerical value, there is a movement from the knob?

simon.a.billington
KVRian
1408 posts since 12 Nov, 2014

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Sat May 19, 2018 7:54 am

I was going to suggest update the graphics card drivers, see if it has an effect, but I think someone got in here before me.

Waves have been known to have some compatibility issues with some graphics cards. Look into it, if you haven’t already.

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poleda
Banned
44 posts since 17 May, 2018

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Sat May 19, 2018 8:36 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
poleda wrote:Old video card, outdated drivers or operator error?
Now we're cooking :tu:

Any chance you could upload a video showing how your Waves plugins are working?
Seems like an odd request for a long standing issue are you truly trying to help or be a distraction?
It's time to set the flux capacitor to 2018, bye bye VST2 and 32 bit.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10510 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Waves Plugins - Really bad graphical response?

Post Sat May 19, 2018 9:14 am

poleda wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
poleda wrote:Old video card, outdated drivers or operator error?
Now we're cooking :tu:

Any chance you could upload a video showing how your Waves plugins are working?
Seems like an odd request for a long standing issue are you truly trying to help or be a distraction?
My contention is that the whole graphics card/Open-GL/outdated drivers angle is a red herring, and therefore the distraction. I may be wrong, but it seems that the performance issues that people are having are just that - performance issues.

I am not having any performance issues, per se. I feel this is a totally different issue altogether. And seeing as it has already been discussed that Waves engineers had the similar issue (And we can assume that their systems are perfectly spec'd to run their plugins), I'm trying to get some kind of visual corroboration to finally lay the issue to rest :shrug:

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