Login / Register 0 items | $0.00 New @ KVR
User avatar
ChamMusic
KVRist
 
465 posts since 12 Jun, 2006, from Birmingham, UK

Postby ChamMusic; Fri May 18, 2018 1:49 am Re: Rainbow Magick

Tinfoil Hat Shite

That may well be the title of my next creation! :0)
Mark Taylor
Chameleon Music
User avatar
whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
25843 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Fri May 18, 2018 1:50 am Re: Rainbow Magick

ChamMusic wrote:My BIG issue with Silke is very simple:

Quantity NOT quality!


Why? When the work of our art students is assessed, its fundamental to see the body of developmental work as well; notes, sketchbooks, etc. I dont see any substantive difference between that kind of output and this.
Muffwiggler, matrixsynth and all sorts of other places are full of output which is 'sketchbook' work; improvs, explorations, experiments.

Apparently all of that is an affront to some people at KVR.

Personally the very tiny number of bits of work that Ive posted here in the past couple of years have been first-pass experiments with new gear. Noodles, basically. A very large amount of other work posted here by other people could be classified as 'sketchbook' as well. I dont recall it being called for as unsuitable for KVR before though, so why has it suddenly been declared a red flag here?

And as regards quality, the common thing Ive noticed in these many SilkeF threads (which would have disappeared without a trace had someone not bumped them into the limelight by bringing their witch-hunt into them), is that the argument against quantity has primarily gone hand-in-hand with a dislike of the work itself(*), rather than an argument that its of 'insufficient' quality.

(*) and aside from that, Im also curious as to whether a male persona would be hounded as much.


For every piece I write and 'release' as such, 20+ other little ideas are tucked away and do not see the light of day as they are simply not complete / developed fully. I'm not saying I always get it right, but it's called 'quality control' and it's something that all creators need to use quite vigorously!


Quality control of what, exactly? Its just as valid to use youtube soundcloud, etc for one's 'sketchpad' as it is for one's 'gallery work'. And as one of the very very old guard, I'll say that the attempt to retcon KVR as a place where it isnt approved of is without foundation.
Last edited by whyterabbyt on Fri May 18, 2018 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."
User avatar
whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
25843 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Fri May 18, 2018 1:52 am Re: Rainbow Magick

jancivil wrote:it's next level tinfoil hat shite


one-ups xoxos and no mistake.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."
User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
 
11335 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri May 18, 2018 2:20 am Re: Rainbow Magick

whyterabbyt wrote:
ChamMusic wrote:My BIG issue with Silke is very simple:

Quantity NOT quality!


Why? When the work of our art students is assessed, its fundamental to see the body of developmental work as well; notes, sketchbooks, etc. I dont see any substantive difference between that kind of output and this.
Muffwiggler, matrixsynth and all sorts of other places are full of output which is 'sketchbook' work; improvs, explorations, experiments.

Apparently all of that is an affront to some people at KVR.

Personally the very tiny number of bits of work that Ive posted here in the past couple of years have been first-pass experiments with new gear. Noodles, basically. A very large amount of other work posted here by other people could be classified as 'sketchbook' as well. I dont recall it being called for as unsuitable for KVR before though, so why has it suddenly been declared a red flag here?

And as regards quality, the common thing Ive noticed in these many SilkeF threads (which would have disappeared without a trace had someone not bumped them into the limelight by bringing their witch-hunt into them), is that the argument against quantity has primarily gone hand-in-hand with a dislike of the work itself(*), rather than an argument that its of 'insufficient' quality.

(*) and aside from that, Im also curious as to whether a male persona would be hounded as much.


For every piece I write and 'release' as such, 20+ other little ideas are tucked away and do not see the light of day as they are simply not complete / developed fully. I'm not saying I always get it right, but it's called 'quality control' and it's something that all creators need to use quite vigorously!


Quality control of what, exactly? Its just as valid to use youtube soundcloud, etc for one's 'sketchpad' as it is for one's 'gallery work'. And as one of the very very old guard, I'll say that the attempt to retcon KVR as a place where it isnt approved of is without foundation.


It's like I've been saying almost since day one that I got here. People in this place just have to have something to complain about. It really has nothing to do with how many songs Silke has posted or the quality of those posts.

Case in point.

Over the now 4 years that I've been here, I've made about 3 or 4 threads asking for synth suggestions (thank you on the last one for the Biotek info) and about 3 or 4 threads asking for help when doing certain genre CDs where I needed suggestions for synths or other things to be able to pull off the sounds I wanted to make.

After just the first couple of each of these, I started getting flak for making them. "What? Another one of these?" And mind you, we're talking maybe 8 threads over the course of 4 years.

With all the crap I've taken over those threads you think I'll ever make another one? Nope, I'm done. I've learned. I finally understand this place. You talk about witch hunts? Well this forum is the witch hunt forum weather you or anyone else wants to admit it or not. So I post very little now (compared to my early output) and pretty much stay in my own little corner in Music Cafe posting my one song a day in that little corner.

I'm only bringing all this up because of your question, when did KVR become like this?

Well, it's been like this at least since I've been here.
User avatar
layzer
KVRAF
 
5253 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Postby layzer; Fri May 18, 2018 3:10 am Re: Rainbow Magick

i dont mind people posting "sketches" or "noodles"
eventually i learn the users that post completed works
and those that do not and who gets my listening time.
no one forces anyone to listen to everything that gets
posted. people pay to watch a movie in a theater not
watch a trailer. And your thread views, (when there
is no controversy tied to it) will reflect people's interest
in it in large part because they enjoyed your previous posts.
Its no rocket science. :idea:
HW SYNTHS [KORG T2EX - AKAI AX80 - YAMAHA SY77 - ENSONIQ VFX]
HW MODULES [OBi M1000 - ROLAND MKS-50 - ROLAND JV880 - KURZ 1000PX]
SW [CHARLATAN - OBXD - OXE - ELEKTRO - MICROTERA - M1 - SURGE - RMiV]
DAW [ENERGY XT2/1U RACK WINXP / MAUDIO 1010LT PCI]
User avatar
ChamMusic
KVRist
 
465 posts since 12 Jun, 2006, from Birmingham, UK

Postby ChamMusic; Fri May 18, 2018 6:08 am Re: Rainbow Magick

whyterabbyt wrote:
ChamMusic wrote:My BIG issue with Silke is very simple:

Quantity NOT quality!


Why? When the work of our art students is assessed, its fundamental to see the body of developmental work as well; notes, sketchbooks, etc. I dont see any substantive difference between that kind of output and this.
Muffwiggler, matrixsynth and all sorts of other places are full of output which is 'sketchbook' work; improvs, explorations, experiments.

Apparently all of that is an affront to some people at KVR.

Personally the very tiny number of bits of work that Ive posted here in the past couple of years have been first-pass experiments with new gear. Noodles, basically. A very large amount of other work posted here by other people could be classified as 'sketchbook' as well. I dont recall it being called for as unsuitable for KVR before though, so why has it suddenly been declared a red flag here?

And as regards quality, the common thing Ive noticed in these many SilkeF threads (which would have disappeared without a trace had someone not bumped them into the limelight by bringing their witch-hunt into them), is that the argument against quantity has primarily gone hand-in-hand with a dislike of the work itself(*), rather than an argument that its of 'insufficient' quality.

(*) and aside from that, Im also curious as to whether a male persona would be hounded as much.


For every piece I write and 'release' as such, 20+ other little ideas are tucked away and do not see the light of day as they are simply not complete / developed fully. I'm not saying I always get it right, but it's called 'quality control' and it's something that all creators need to use quite vigorously!


Quality control of what, exactly? Its just as valid to use youtube soundcloud, etc for one's 'sketchpad' as it is for one's 'gallery work'. And as one of the very very old guard, I'll say that the attempt to retcon KVR as a place where it isnt approved of is without foundation.


If you'd read the points I raised with more attention to detail, you might've frothed a little less dude!

What a nonsensical rant!

Wipe the foam from your chin, slow your breathing down and read more carefully next time!

1) I clearly and explicitly praised some of Silke's output.

2) I specifically talked about a balance between quantity and quality / instant output versus redraft.

"Its just as valid to use youtube soundcloud, etc for one's 'sketchpad' as it is for one's 'gallery work'."

That's an argument for another time, but it's certainly more nuanced than your statement here. More importantly, you entirely miss the point in this scenario:

Silke is NOT asking for feedback on sketches in any way shape or form. In fact he / she (not entirely sure) has no interaction with any of these threads at all.

Silke is actually bombarding this and other forums with these short pieces and the reason has nothing to do with furthering abilities / getting feedback. It is ALL about creating a network linking back to the weird conspiracy theory blogs that are at the hub of this peculiar little empire.

At one point recently over half the entries on the main page of the Music cafe were from Silke! That in itself would've been seriously unusual, but possibly acceptable if there was interaction and a genuine desire for feedback....but THERE IS NONE WHATSOEVER!

I've responded to many 'sketch' posts from various people over the years, giving advice and feedback...in general, I have no issue with them at all as long as they don't overdo it and actually work some material through to completion! In fact, glancing through my comments over the past month...20+ are feedback to people posting draft works!

"Im also curious as to whether a male persona would be hounded as much."

If you knew anything about me and the way I lead my life, you would understand what a pathetically inaccurate pile of garbage that is! A cheap, unintelligent, desperate shot in the dark at the end of a salvo of blanks!

FINAL POINT:
I ran Silke's output past a friend of mine who is a part-time musician / extremely experienced professional programmer...

His instant reaction was: "Many of these are random computer-generated pieces - straight out of some software with no additional human involvement at all." That would certainly make sense considering how many are appearing each week!

Silke's forum posts are NOT about the music! That's the central point here!
Mark Taylor
Chameleon Music
User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
 
35291 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Fri May 18, 2018 6:21 am Re: Rainbow Magick

if only there was something one could easily and more productively do to address the balance??? :o


we must pray to our idols to save us from this abhorrent evil!!!!


i for one, am offended!!!
chk071
KVRAF
 
15523 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Fri May 18, 2018 6:23 am Re: Rainbow Magick

Let's discuss this guys. Let's have a discussion about this.
User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
 
26846 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from Downeast Maine

Postby Hink; Fri May 18, 2018 6:26 am Re: Rainbow Magick

chk071 wrote:Let's discuss this guys. Let's have a discussion about this.


Suggestion, someone should start a thread in site stuff about it as that is a much more suited place for such a discussion :wink:
got any good fish stories? Let minnow
User avatar
Unaspected
KVRist
 
245 posts since 4 May, 2012

Postby Unaspected; Fri May 18, 2018 6:36 am Re: Rainbow Magick

vurt wrote:if only there was something one could easily and more productively do to address the balance??? :o


we must pray to our idols to save us from this abhorrent evil!!!!


i for one, am offended!!!


Hehe! A lot of people sure seem to be.

Who would have expected such a reaction from some electronic noodles? Whatever keeps the blood flowing, I guess.

I'm still enjoying it.
User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
 
35291 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Fri May 18, 2018 6:43 am Re: Rainbow Magick

im just hoping the discussion thread manages to stay open long enough for me to register my offence there too, off to see deadpool soon, so im trusting you all to behave!
User avatar
whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
25843 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Fri May 18, 2018 6:49 am Re: Rainbow Magick

ChamMusic wrote:If you'd read the points I raised with more attention to detail, you might've frothed a little less dude!

What a nonsensical rant!



What a calm and collected response. Very similar to Frantz's immediate resort to personal attacks, and his attempt to claim insight into my state of mind; I wonder if that's a pattern.

Smacks of psychological projection, though, tbh.

1) I clearly and explicitly praised some of Silke's output.

2) I specifically talked about a balance between quantity and quality / instant output versus redraft.


Is there a point where I said anything about you or how you'd reacted to Silke's output?

No.

Are you that egocentric that you're unable to read someone responding to your post without assuming that they're talking about you? Seems like it.

I get it. Noone's allowed to disagree, in any context, full stop. Not even allowed to talk about the situation in generalities. Any dissent will be made personal. Frantz has been doing the same thing.

"Its just as valid to use youtube soundcloud, etc for one's 'sketchpad' as it is for one's 'gallery work'."

That's an argument for another time, but it's certainly more nuanced than your statement here.


My own statement is more nuanced than my own statement. Good to know.

Also good to know that its 'for another time'. Glad we had you here to decide which parts of the discussion can be handwaved away.

More importantly, you entirely miss the point in this scenario:

Silke is NOT asking for feedback on sketches in any way shape or form. In fact he / she (not entirely sure) has no interaction with any of these threads at all.


Im well aware of that. You did notice that I pointed out that the threads prominence isnt actually down to her, did you? Or was that for another time, too?
Are you aware of the fact that plenty of people post music without any interaction with any of the threads, without the same hue and cry?

I've responded to many 'sketch' posts from various people over the years, giving advice and feedback...in general, I have no issue with them at all as long as they don't overdo it and actually work some material through to completion! In fact, glancing through my comments over the past month...20+ are feedback to people posting draft works!


Thank you for supporting my point about the nature of work posted at KVR.

"Im also curious as to whether a male persona would be hounded as much."

If you knew anything about me and the way I lead my life, you would understand what a pathetically inaccurate pile of garbage that is! A cheap, unintelligent, desperate shot in the dark at the end of a salvo of blanks!


Are you pretending that that comment was specifically aimed at you?

I think I know who's the one frothing.

Here's an idea for you. Take the words 'this is about Silke F's music' out of your head when rereading what I was actually saying, and try and explain the principle of how railroading any individual for posting 'too much' music has validity.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."
User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
 
11335 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri May 18, 2018 6:53 am Re: Rainbow Magick

To be fair, some valid points have been made. Were I to do this same thing (creating dozens of threads of automated generated stuff) simply for the purpose of getting people to go to my sound libraries page, I'd have been banned from this forum. There is no question about that.

Given the "facts" that have come to light, one does have to question the motivation behind all these posts and then, if they violate forum policy, whether that policy be written or unwritten. As I said earlier, in many forums that I've attended over the years, this posting behavior would have gotten the user banned with no question (try getting away with this at the Warrior Forum) but here we seem to be more tolerant.

Personally, I don't really care. When I'm bored (which seems to be a lot lately) I enjoy listening to her noodlings. If nothing else, it gives me something to do to kill some time.

But given her involvement here and facts about her other sites, I can understand people being annoyed by what's going on.

In the grand scheme of things, is it a big deal? Well, it depends. What if we have 20 people here doing this same thing? The Music Cafe would become a worthless place to visit. We might as well just close it down. Case in point, forums I've been to that were in fact taken over by spam and eventually closed because members lost interest.

Ultimately, the question becomes this. Is there a line to be drawn? If so, where do we draw it?
User avatar
ChamMusic
KVRist
 
465 posts since 12 Jun, 2006, from Birmingham, UK

Postby ChamMusic; Fri May 18, 2018 6:56 am Re: Rainbow Magick

wagtunes wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:
ChamMusic wrote:My BIG issue with Silke is very simple:

Quantity NOT quality!


Why? When the work of our art students is assessed, its fundamental to see the body of developmental work as well; notes, sketchbooks, etc. I dont see any substantive difference between that kind of output and this.
Muffwiggler, matrixsynth and all sorts of other places are full of output which is 'sketchbook' work; improvs, explorations, experiments.

Apparently all of that is an affront to some people at KVR.

Personally the very tiny number of bits of work that Ive posted here in the past couple of years have been first-pass experiments with new gear. Noodles, basically. A very large amount of other work posted here by other people could be classified as 'sketchbook' as well. I dont recall it being called for as unsuitable for KVR before though, so why has it suddenly been declared a red flag here?

And as regards quality, the common thing Ive noticed in these many SilkeF threads (which would have disappeared without a trace had someone not bumped them into the limelight by bringing their witch-hunt into them), is that the argument against quantity has primarily gone hand-in-hand with a dislike of the work itself(*), rather than an argument that its of 'insufficient' quality.

(*) and aside from that, Im also curious as to whether a male persona would be hounded as much.


For every piece I write and 'release' as such, 20+ other little ideas are tucked away and do not see the light of day as they are simply not complete / developed fully. I'm not saying I always get it right, but it's called 'quality control' and it's something that all creators need to use quite vigorously!


Quality control of what, exactly? Its just as valid to use youtube soundcloud, etc for one's 'sketchpad' as it is for one's 'gallery work'. And as one of the very very old guard, I'll say that the attempt to retcon KVR as a place where it isnt approved of is without foundation.


It's like I've been saying almost since day one that I got here. People in this place just have to have something to complain about. It really has nothing to do with how many songs Silke has posted or the quality of those posts.

Case in point.

Over the now 4 years that I've been here, I've made about 3 or 4 threads asking for synth suggestions (thank you on the last one for the Biotek info) and about 3 or 4 threads asking for help when doing certain genre CDs where I needed suggestions for synths or other things to be able to pull off the sounds I wanted to make.

After just the first couple of each of these, I started getting flak for making them. "What? Another one of these?" And mind you, we're talking maybe 8 threads over the course of 4 years.

With all the crap I've taken over those threads you think I'll ever make another one? Nope, I'm done. I've learned. I finally understand this place. You talk about witch hunts? Well this forum is the witch hunt forum weather you or anyone else wants to admit it or not. So I post very little now (compared to my early output) and pretty much stay in my own little corner in Music Cafe posting my one song a day in that little corner.

I'm only bringing all this up because of your question, when did KVR become like this?

Well, it's been like this at least since I've been here.


As someone who is 'complaining' (if you want to call it that) on KVR for the first time, (no one could seriously accuse me of being unduly negative in my posts over the years)...

Wagtunes, I do get your point about certain people responding negatively and quite offensively to threads on occasion, (there is too much of it on ALL forums)...I remember when posting some positive feedback on a classical piece of yours sometime ago that there was a lot of unnecessary bile amongst other responses.

But, this is different:

Here we have someone / some organization (Silke) that is using the Music Cafe for the wrong reasons...not too discuss music at all. They are NOT posting a few draft pieces here and there looking for feedback / discussion; they are posting masses of pieces over a very short period of time...SPAM!

Just glance back through Music cafe and count how many SILKE entries there are...it is just a little bit suspicious by and standards!

There has never been any interaction with the poster of these threads that I am aware of?
Mark Taylor
Chameleon Music
User avatar
whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
25843 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Fri May 18, 2018 7:00 am Re: Rainbow Magick

wagtunes wrote:But given her involvement here and facts about her other sites, I can understand people being annoyed by what's going on.


Its certainly the case that its being used as a post-hoc justification. But that's not how it started so leveraging it now is highly suspect.

(Its also the case that noone ever gave a f**k about xoxos' leveraging of his output to present his various ever-changing set of conspiracy theories over the past 15 years.)
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."
PreviousNext

Moderators: DrApostropheX, Scoops, Moderators (Main)

Return to Music Cafe