When is MIDI finally going to die?

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
wonshu
KVRist
335 posts since 13 Jul, 2003 from Berlin

Post Thu May 17, 2018 4:11 am

... to make place for another standard with higher resolution control values and probably many other features that would make our lives better.

Side question:
What is out there that works today (hardware controller, but also software that can handle the messages) and has higher resolution control values?

Best
Hans
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
16884 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: When is MIDI finally going to die?

Post Thu May 17, 2018 4:15 am

OSC is there.

MIDI ain't gonna die any time soon.

wonshu
KVRist
335 posts since 13 Jul, 2003 from Berlin

Re: When is MIDI finally going to die?

Post Thu May 17, 2018 4:41 am

After reading up on it (again, after a couple of years) right now I immediately stumbled upon stuff I have to install to use TouchOSC with OSC instead of MIDI that has been deprecated for at least 5 OS versions.

This is not an alternative unfortunately.

But perhaps someone can point me in a more contemporary direction?
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BertKoor
KVRAF
10621 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland

Re: When is MIDI finally going to die?

Post Thu May 17, 2018 5:09 am

MIDI continuous controllers can have a resolution of 14 bits. For the pitch wheel this is standard, for other controller values it's done with MSB/LSB pairs. It's up to the gear manufacturers to implement it (or not.) This allows for example for a CC controlling the pitch to do so over the whole audible range with a precision of one cent. Not enough??

So the question really is: does your midi controller get the most out of MIDI already?
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
16884 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: When is MIDI finally going to die?

Post Thu May 17, 2018 5:26 am

wonshu wrote:After reading up on it (again, after a couple of years) right now I immediately stumbled upon stuff I have to install to use TouchOSC with OSC instead of MIDI that has been deprecated for at least 5 OS versions.
Not sure what you're implying. TouchOSC supports macOS 10.5+.


OSC is as contemporary as you're going to get.

wonshu
KVRist
335 posts since 13 Jul, 2003 from Berlin

Re: When is MIDI finally going to die?

Post Thu May 17, 2018 7:08 am

https://hexler.net/docs/touchosc-getting-started-osc

needs:
Pure Data (which is only 32 bit, so gives me a warning and will probably stop working pretty soon)
Pure Data needs X11 which is no longer officially supported.

So, for this solution to work, I have to seriously compromise my system, or risk investing time now which is lost, once 32-bit apps don't work at all anymore.

I probably haven't found the right system, so please point me to how I can create (yes, I want to design my own, like TouchOSC or Lemur allows) a good OSC controller using an iPad. That would be very nice!

Best
Hans
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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4661 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: When is MIDI finally going to die?

Post Thu May 17, 2018 2:24 pm

HD MIDI has been "coming soon" for decades but the industry hasn't agreed upon anything enough to get it implemented (at least not to the same degree originally agreed on with MIDI 1.0).

Some companies tried marketing poorly implemented replacement music networking systems (like Yamaha's abysmal mLAN), wasting resources and customer good will, leaving early adopters annoyed and going back to existing tech when the new formats failed to get established.

Going wireless is more interesting to people than going HD, and wireless isn't exactly a great transport system for high-density, delivery time-guaranteed data. Even standard MIDI performs poorly with wireless.

MPE is the biggest news in MIDI standards... and it is merely a formalized alternative use of existing MIDI standards, which took ages to be formalized by the MIDI standards organization.

Use of 14-bit MIDI is obscure (setting up software/controllers every time you want to use one, needing hardware/software that supports it, etc).

OSC is a PITA to set up (needs a host/server and IP addresses??) and there's nothing automatic about it. And then there's latency(?).

This all just boils down to the basic fact: MIDI isn't going to "die" any time soon; it has spent all this time NOT being improved upon because it has been "good enough" to do the basics. Most users only care about the basics.

So few users seem to care about the finer details of performance expression. Most manufacturers don't even sell controllers with poly aftertouch; they see no demand for it. When someone builds hardware with lots of expression, it's expensive and few people buy it. The hard core buyers aren't a critical mass and the media reviewer of said products never promote these devices as substantially better than basic (cheaper) controllers.

I presume most people using MIDI (knowingly or unknowingly) aren't performers demanding superb expression control.

I used to be one of the people who would ask this same inquiry of forums (like my earlier posts here on KVR about HD MIDI). Since then, I've seen all the above issues play out and stopped hoping.
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
16884 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: When is MIDI finally going to die?

Post Thu May 17, 2018 8:14 pm

wonshu wrote:So, for this solution to work, I have to seriously compromise my system, or risk investing time now which is lost, once 32-bit apps don't work at all anymore.
Or use Windows, where having 32-bit apps will not be a problem at all. :ud:

wonshu
KVRist
335 posts since 13 Jul, 2003 from Berlin

Re: When is MIDI finally going to die?

Post Thu May 17, 2018 11:19 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:This all just boils down to the basic fact: MIDI isn't going to "die" any time soon; it has spent all this time NOT being improved upon because it has been "good enough" to do the basics. Most users only care about the basics.
Thank you for taking the time, you are putting my exact experiences into words!

After 2 or 3 years of not looking into this issue I had hoped that there is some news out there, those hopes are again shattered.

Maybe I do have to go analog modular for some specific sounds.

Best,
Hans
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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
5485 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from either Northern Idaho or Southern Canada, still trying to figure out which

Re: When is MIDI finally going to die?

Post Fri May 18, 2018 9:52 am

Tuesday
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wonshu
KVRist
335 posts since 13 Jul, 2003 from Berlin

Re: When is MIDI finally going to die?

Post Sat May 19, 2018 2:06 am

lol.

Ok, then.

:-D
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