general Music Cafe discussion thread

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sjm
KVRAF
1884 posts since 17 Apr, 2004

Post Sun May 20, 2018 5:58 am

Frantz wrote:
sjm wrote:Give it two weeks. Trust me.
Two weeks is a very long time for a place to be dysfunctional. The internet routes around damage like this. No site has a permanent audience. When was the last time you were on myspace?
For the first time in my life, about 4 months ago. 2 weeks is a long time in the age of knee-jerk Twitter, that is true. Whether one considers that the correct frame of reference is up to the individual.

There is another way to view this. Once things are set in motion, they need to play out. You cannot undo the controversy. All you can now do is not fan the flames.

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Voted KVR's resident drunk Robert Smith impersonator (thanks Frantz!)

https://soundcloud.com/steevm/

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Frantz
KVRAF
5136 posts since 18 Jul, 2008 from New York

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 6:21 am

sjm wrote:Once things are set in motion, they need to play out. You cannot undo the controversy. All you can now do is not fan the flames.
We do not need to be helpless victims sitting on the sidelines for weeks waiting for the storm to blow over. The entire situation is preventable if the right guideline is available so that the moderators can take decisive action before it turns into a shitshow.

It was a mistake to propose so many new guidelines on a wild west forum like this. Here is my new minimal proposal that I think would prevent this kind of clusterfuck from reoccurring.

Proposed Music Cafe Guideline
Start no more than 2 new threads per day in the Music Cafe.



How does that work for everyone?

ChamMusic
KVRian
893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 6:49 am

Frantz wrote:Proposed Music Cafe Guideline
Start no more than 2 new threads per day in the Music Cafe.
Something along this line is sensible...no one needs to put any more than that up here anyway as it would potentially be counterproductive in terms of feedback.
Frantz wrote:so that the moderators can take decisive action before it turns into a shitshow.
This is the crux of the matter and moderators have to accept some responsibility for this situation...

Silke F is a proven, hate-filled, divisive influence on many forums over many years...banned already many times over after their appallingly violent threats against people on Aphex Twin, Autechre and Boards of Canada forums...amongst others.

Some 'regulars' here have found it all funny, entertaining and 'kooky'...it is NOT if you have been hounded aggressively and violently by this persona...just for disagreeing with her or in two cases simply because you said that you preferred Aphex Twin's music!

The Silke F persona is clever, insidious and deliberately slow-moving and subtly divisive...stop laughing it off and do something about it...

KVR posters...from now on, just 100% ignore any posts from Silke F.

Moderators, deal with it and put in place a system to stop this happening again...you seem to have got off quite lightly so far with this....Silke F has totally destroyed music forums elsewhere, leaving bitter, twisted arguments seething and frothing for months after she'd flown away to the next target! that's what she is aiming to do each and every time!

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Unaspected
KVRian
779 posts since 4 May, 2012

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 6:56 am

Frantz wrote:We do not need to be helpless victims sitting on the sidelines for weeks waiting for the storm to blow over.
That's a little dramatic, isn't it?

Frantz wrote:Proposed Music Cafe Guideline
Start no more than 2 new threads per day in the Music Cafe.



How does that work for everyone?
It wouldn't affect me but I'm thinking how it might affect others. What happens when one of these rules or guidelines is broken? A moderator sends a PM? Any mod can do that already without need for guidelines. I'm sure mods like the place to look as tidy as possible.

General conduct guidelines are already in place.

ChamMusic
KVRian
893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 7:06 am

Unaspected wrote:General conduct guidelines are already in place.
Agreed..I had a look!

But...

They are NOT being enforced effectively.

Other forums I use (including one that I helped run for years) are much more pro-active on the moderation side to make sure that it all runs smoothly.

I've always been amazed at how 'invisible' the moderators are on KVR and how unacceptable behaviour goes on for so long without apparent intervention.

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Frantz
KVRAF
5136 posts since 18 Jul, 2008 from New York

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 7:06 am

Unaspected wrote:Any mod can do that already without need for guidelines. I'm sure mods like the place to look as tidy as possible.

General conduct guidelines are already in place.
Hink, who is a mod, told me what Silke was doing was not against the current rules. Hink was watching the unfolding drama but he couldn't really take action without a specific guideline to act on. That is why I think we need a guideline.

To be fair, Hink did not have information about Silke's history on other boards.

elassi
KVRAF
2170 posts since 8 Sep, 2009

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 7:07 am

As soon as the only problem has been wiped of the music cafe the situation will become flawless and trouble-free as it was before.

Most likely we'll then need no further (written) rules.

Reasons for a valid and indisputable ban are already on the table despite the weird fanboyism by some bored members having fun when it comes to unpleasant forms of anarchy.

elassi
KVRAF
2170 posts since 8 Sep, 2009

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 7:14 am

Frantz wrote:To be fair, Hink did not have information about Silke's history on other boards.
Since there's evidence that this "artist" steals other people's work (I'm talking about the vid's artwork, can't tell about the music) I don't see a problem with - at least - deleting the respective posts. I'd prefer to add the reason for deleting so everyone can see what the kind of character we are dealing with.

ChamMusic
KVRian
893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 7:18 am

elassi wrote:the weird fanboyism by some bored members having fun when it comes to unpleasant forms of anarchy.
That happened on every single forum where Silke F did their thing...it was the main way she caused division and disruption...very quickly gets out of hand and abusive posts go back and forth...

Silke F just looks on and smiles at the handy work and then starts throwing in their own brand of hate at opportune moments to stir it even further...it's very cleverly done.

ChamMusic
KVRian
893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 7:19 am

I've said my bit...not following this thread any more...too busy!

sjm
KVRAF
1884 posts since 17 Apr, 2004

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 7:25 am

Frantz wrote:We do not need to be helpless victims sitting on the sidelines for weeks...
Alright, I'll be more explicit. By giving Silke what Silke wants, you are making this much worse than it would have been otherwise.

You (and all of us engaging in these threads) are not passive victims. It has become what you and we made it.
Voted KVR's resident drunk Robert Smith impersonator (thanks Frantz!)

https://soundcloud.com/steevm/

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Unaspected
KVRian
779 posts since 4 May, 2012

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 7:31 am

ChamMusic wrote:
Unaspected wrote:General conduct guidelines are already in place.
Agreed..I had a look!

But...

They are NOT being enforced effectively.
That possibly is the case. I'm a mod on another forum and wouldn't have had issue flying in and dealing with the situation. I just don't understand - yet have been entertained - by the drama.

You suggested in the other thread that Silke F was able to divide whole forums and cause fighting. I would be amazed to see it but it would also be sad to think such a thing could happen. Maybe people step up to defend her. I just liked the music and am a little confused by the strong reaction of some people.

But, as you say, she has form. This has been my first encounter with Silke F and I won't deny that I enjoyed it. I am sorry that other people had some bad experiences but I like the lawlessness and anonymity of the internet. I don't really want rules put in place just because some people can't handle things.

Frantz wrote:
Unaspected wrote:Any mod can do that already without need for guidelines. I'm sure mods like the place to look as tidy as possible.

General conduct guidelines are already in place.
Hink, who is a mod, told me what Silke was doing was not against the current rules. Hink was watching the unfolding drama but he couldn't really take action without a specific guideline to act on. That is why I think we need a guideline.

To be fair, Hink did not have information about Silke's history on other boards.
No. That's silly. The first thing any mod should have done is brought it up in the mod forum. It would have been discussed there, researched and appropriate action would be taken. Mods can find out information on users easily - it's not hard. This kind of thing shouldn't take long to organise at all.

If Hink is the only one home, he should have made a decision - which I am guessing was not to act. Though I still really don't understand why Silke F's work wasn't policed yet this thread was. :dog:

It's much more likely that the mods didn't perceive it as a problem and therefore just let it be.

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Frantz
KVRAF
5136 posts since 18 Jul, 2008 from New York

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 7:35 am

sjm wrote:By giving Silke what Silke wants, you are making this much worse than it would have been otherwise.
I am talking about setting up a guideline that a moderator can reference to ban users like Silke so we don't have to go through a week of this nonsense. Is that giving Silke what Silke wants?

chk071
KVRAF
21146 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 8:20 am

Isn't it amazing which behavior can make you notorious these days? :lol:

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
27377 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sun May 20, 2018 8:36 am

Frantz wrote:
sjm wrote:By giving Silke what Silke wants, you are making this much worse than it would have been otherwise.
I am talking about setting up a guideline that a moderator can reference to ban users like Silke so we don't have to go through a week of this nonsense.
Like Silke in what specific ways? Posting a track every two or three days? Not returning to threads?

Like Silke was a week ago? Or like Silke F more recently, after being singled out for posting a track every two or three days and not returning to threads.

Like Silke in having batshit crazy conspiracy theory notions posted elsewhere?

Like Silke in being outed a week later for bad behaviour on other forums?

Or like Silke's in seemingly plagiarising other people's work?

I kind of think that if someone had given evidence for that one a week ago, a ban would have happened without you deciding you were writing the Moderator Rulebook.

I disagree that any of the others are sufficient justification for a ban. Especially not for someone behaving as Silke was a week ago.
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