All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.
richielg
KVRist
40 posts since 24 Jun, 2012 from Leeds

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:52 am

Does anyone else notice a trend among new producers wanting to be spoon fed information - particularly about Ableton? Its a lazy and unconstructive way to learn music production. I mean if you need an Ableton 10 course to tell you how to set up your DAW then your either an absolute beginner which is fine but if your not then you should probably pack it in. I mean the kids these days they expect just to be able to watch a series of youtube videos and then be able to produce. How do they ever learn from making mistakes and create their own unique way of working? This lazy, not wanting to read the manual or text books on the subject approach to learning is leading people to create generic music because you are just allowing someone else to define how they think you should work rather than defining that your self. The thought process should be "I want to achieve this sound, how can I adapt my work flow and use particular tools to achieve this and what do I need to learn in order to do so?" Then pick up the god damn manual or read a book! Im so sick of these lazy generic producers that don't understand how to learn for them selves. You think Andrew Weatherall or the Chemical Brothers had endless Youtube videos spoon feeding them exactly what to do back in the early 90's? They figured it out for them selves by making tons of mistakes, understanding the instruments and the processes behind the music, developing their critical listening skills and then defining their own way of working. The Kids of today man I tell you.

mrdoghead
KVRer
2 posts since 26 Jun, 2018

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:56 am

Get off my lawn!

Punks.

chk071
KVRAF
17289 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:03 am

While i mostly agree with what is written in the OP, i don't even think it's worth thinking or bother about it that much. Also, i think that it is not a bad thing making something complicated as easy as possible. After all that's what our DAW's do anyway, and they should do it as good as possible.

Know what i find really weird? Those "push a button and out comes a sound or beat" controllers like Push and the likes. TBH, i have a hard time considering that actual music making.

User avatar
mgw38
KVRian
1109 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:15 am

We currently live in an instant gratification culture and that has consequences in the perception of what it means to acquire skills. I am in higher education. Even though my opinion is mainly based on anectodal evidence I can somewhat confirm the OPs observations. It is not uncommon for our incoming students to truly believe that it takes about a youtube video or two to master the complexity of a software akin to a DAW.

mcbpete
KVRian
1232 posts since 24 Jun, 2006 from London, England

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:16 am

chk071 wrote:Know what i find really weird? Those "push a button and out comes a sound or beat" controllers like Push and the likes. TBH, i have a hard time considering that actual music making.
What on earth are you talking about ?!

User avatar
topaz
KVRAF
4198 posts since 15 Jul, 2001 from Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, U.K

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:25 am

Whatever it takes to learn I say.

What is really holding things back is (especially in dance music) genre specific producers trying to sound like everyone else and too afraid to break some rules because the DJ's wont like it or would freak out if they heard a sound that does not feature in every other track out at the time.

People afraid to experiment with other genres and sound so they churn out the same old same old.
richielg wrote:Does anyone else notice a trend among new producers wanting to be spoon fed information - particularly about Ableton? Its a lazy and unconstructive way to learn music production. I mean if you need an Ableton 10 course to tell you how to set up your DAW then your either an absolute beginner which is fine but if your not then you should probably pack it in. I mean the kids these days they expect just to be able to watch a series of youtube videos and then be able to produce. How do they ever learn from making mistakes and create their own unique way of working? This lazy, not wanting to read the manual or text books on the subject approach to learning is leading people to create generic music because you are just allowing someone else to define how they think you should work rather than defining that your self. The thought process should be "I want to achieve this sound, how can I adapt my work flow and use particular tools to achieve this and what do I need to learn in order to do so?" Then pick up the god damn manual or read a book! Im so sick of these lazy generic producers that don't understand how to learn for them selves. You think Andrew Weatherall or the Chemical Brothers had endless Youtube videos spoon feeding them exactly what to do back in the early 90's? They figured it out for them selves by making tons of mistakes, understanding the instruments and the processes behind the music, developing their critical listening skills and then defining their own way of working. The Kids of today man I tell you.

LawrenceF
KVRAF
6010 posts since 4 Dec, 2004

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:26 am

Then pick up the god damn manual or read a book...
Bingo. They're not really "learning" anything, more just accumulating "tips", which is why they keep coming back every ten minutes with more basic questions about things in the manual.

chk071
KVRAF
17289 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:29 am

mcbpete wrote:
chk071 wrote:Know what i find really weird? Those "push a button and out comes a sound or beat" controllers like Push and the likes. TBH, i have a hard time considering that actual music making.
What on earth are you talking about ?!
What on earth don't you understand about it? :P

mcbpete
KVRian
1232 posts since 24 Jun, 2006 from London, England

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:36 am

So any midi controller and/or sequencer you also consider to not be actual music making ?

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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
2851 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:58 am

Advanced technology lets us make more and better music faster. If someone doesn't catch up, he will be left behind. Telling people to "work hard" is just like telling a guy to cut crops with sickle when his neightbour uses combine.

This is a separate issue from the fact that so many people make music you still need to be outstanding and spend years to get anywhere at all.
http://djwarmonger.wordpress.com/
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

Zexila
KVRAF
3127 posts since 18 Mar, 2008

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:05 am

I'm not bothered when they want to learn, but when they don't want to do anything and pretend it's your obligation to give them what they need, spoiled brats.
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? :D ShawnG

User avatar
JoseC.
KVRist
420 posts since 14 Nov, 2005 from León, Spain

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:51 am

I read somewhere today the sentence "attention span is the new inteligence". Most of them are both the old and the new kind of dumb.
Cakewalk by Bandlab with all Sonar Platinum plugins and Melodyne Essential, Live 9, Komplete 12, a handful of hardware and software synths and some guitars. Currently obsessed by VCV Rack.

chillpill
KVRist
37 posts since 2 Mar, 2018

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:09 am

Where can I find these "YouTube" videos?!










:hihi:

rlared
KVRist
136 posts since 1 Aug, 2016

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:18 am

richielg wrote:Does anyone else notice a trend among new producers wanting to be spoon fed information - particularly about Ableton? Its a lazy and unconstructive way to learn music production. I mean if you need an Ableton 10 course to tell you how to set up your DAW then your either an absolute beginner which is fine but if your not then you should probably pack it in. I mean the kids these days they expect just to be able to watch a series of youtube videos and then be able to produce. How do they ever learn from making mistakes and create their own unique way of working? This lazy, not wanting to read the manual or text books on the subject approach to learning is leading people to create generic music because you are just allowing someone else to define how they think you should work rather than defining that your self. The thought process should be "I want to achieve this sound, how can I adapt my work flow and use particular tools to achieve this and what do I need to learn in order to do so?" Then pick up the god damn manual or read a book! Im so sick of these lazy generic producers that don't understand how to learn for them selves. You think Andrew Weatherall or the Chemical Brothers had endless Youtube videos spoon feeding them exactly what to do back in the early 90's? They figured it out for them selves by making tons of mistakes, understanding the instruments and the processes behind the music, developing their critical listening skills and then defining their own way of working. The Kids of today man I tell you.
Sorry but this makes no sense. People used to work as an apprentice under a master to learn a craft, which is the same idea. The only people who teach themselves with textbooks are Good Will Hunting.

bbtr
Banned
410 posts since 21 Nov, 2005

Re: All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

Post Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:18 am

Get your terms right. Those are not 'new producers'. Those are customers of audio software and/or users of cracked copies.

You bought a knife - but this doesn't make you a surgeon.

A producer is someone who has actually produced something, and sold it. And is right there, on the map.

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