This thread is intended to be fun and to share some interesting ideas. It's not intended to be for RetroMod support questions or to suggest this could be a real thing by Tracktion.
Having said that, and wishing Tracktion a lot of success with the RetroMod line... what would you love to see as the next RetroMod virtual synth? And which one after that? Forget about the complexities of licensing, trademark, and all that... this is just for fun.
As an old-timer, I think the RetroMod concept is great: they're a bit more than ROMplers and a bit less than a true emulation, but having played around with the Fat and the 106 RetroMods, it's great to hear these old sounds again.
You know what RetroMod I would be thrilled to see next?
A Korg DW-8000. I loved that thing. Easy to program, and lots of killer leads.
An Ensoniq VFX. I could do anything with one of these, and was heart-broken when a lightning strike blew out its motherboard. A RetroMod VFX would let you have all that cross-modulation again, without the hassle of the dreaded Keyboard Calibration Error or overheating.
An Emulator 3, especially if it could actually play the old sample library.
Okay, I'll stop there. What's your short-list? Or your long-list? What great old sound would make you say "Hey, cool!"
Your Dream RetroMods?
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1372 posts since 9 Jan, 2018
Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and even Deezer, whatever the hell Deezer is.
More fun at Twitter @watchfulactual
More fun at Twitter @watchfulactual
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- KVRAF
- 1777 posts since 30 Dec, 2012
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1372 posts since 9 Jan, 2018
Thanks--I feel you've earned a break after all the roll outs you've had!dRowAudio wrote:Great thread! Looking forward to the discussion
If we're Korging it up, maybe throw those into the DW-8000 RetroMod, and include a DS-8 in there. The FM synthesis should be super-easy to recreate as a genuine emulator.Purpan wrote:Korg 01/W
Korg Prophecy
Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and even Deezer, whatever the hell Deezer is.
More fun at Twitter @watchfulactual
More fun at Twitter @watchfulactual
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1372 posts since 9 Jan, 2018
Agreed, and we might as well throw in a D-50. I know they became a cliché, and often lacked warmth, but a non-Cloud D-50 would be great to put with your non-Cloud JV-1080. I like your ideas!
Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and even Deezer, whatever the hell Deezer is.
More fun at Twitter @watchfulactual
More fun at Twitter @watchfulactual
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- KVRist
- 319 posts since 9 Sep, 2017
I own the hardware D-70 and for what it is, it is superb. But the very point is the programming.
With so many synths, the factory sounds are boring, and even more when some notorious producers use them in the cookie cutter pop industry.
Therefor I think the actually creative and useful task will be huge.
I would never go for a D-50 emulation, but for a D-70 with some added D-50 features (e.g. the base samples are somewhat different).
When it is done wisely, you'll get a warmer D-50 with many more sounds, plus the typical D-70 with the huge strings. (You can do some Bach / pop crossover stuff with the piano-string performance combination.)
Part of the task, and this should be true for many synths, would be to build up or take part in a club scene, where personal sound banks get exchanged, tested, reviewed etc.
One important aspect is the sensitivity of the dynamics, how well it fits the projected instrument. Using two samples, each with different attack/decay, VCF settings etc.
(e.g. I made a piano sound that fits particularly with RnB and classic sixties soul, but for the stage. It is not meant to sound "real", but it is beautiful and intense. The factory sounds often have not invested that tweaking effort and sensitivity. This might well be the warmth factor!)
And only after some time, the best and most versatile of these user-programmed sounds can be sampled and used in the emulation, with a growing database of presets.
This means, the structure of classification has to be complex and multidimensional, reminding of good old napster for search and find of musical genres.
@Dave, that would be another area where a fuzzy search can be helpful. Built into a scalable search organisation with only one engine for all.
Scalable means to choose which parameters to use:
original name / music genre / sound or effect type / maker / useful for {stage / pro studio / home studio} / etc..
Some parameters will come up from the sound exchange club scene.
The search in the synth library will use some of these parameters, and the plugin search in the DAW will use some of these and some other parameters.
Multiselect can be turned on optionally, to add up combined results.
With so many synths, the factory sounds are boring, and even more when some notorious producers use them in the cookie cutter pop industry.
Therefor I think the actually creative and useful task will be huge.
I would never go for a D-50 emulation, but for a D-70 with some added D-50 features (e.g. the base samples are somewhat different).
When it is done wisely, you'll get a warmer D-50 with many more sounds, plus the typical D-70 with the huge strings. (You can do some Bach / pop crossover stuff with the piano-string performance combination.)
Part of the task, and this should be true for many synths, would be to build up or take part in a club scene, where personal sound banks get exchanged, tested, reviewed etc.
One important aspect is the sensitivity of the dynamics, how well it fits the projected instrument. Using two samples, each with different attack/decay, VCF settings etc.
(e.g. I made a piano sound that fits particularly with RnB and classic sixties soul, but for the stage. It is not meant to sound "real", but it is beautiful and intense. The factory sounds often have not invested that tweaking effort and sensitivity. This might well be the warmth factor!)
And only after some time, the best and most versatile of these user-programmed sounds can be sampled and used in the emulation, with a growing database of presets.
This means, the structure of classification has to be complex and multidimensional, reminding of good old napster for search and find of musical genres.
@Dave, that would be another area where a fuzzy search can be helpful. Built into a scalable search organisation with only one engine for all.
Scalable means to choose which parameters to use:
original name / music genre / sound or effect type / maker / useful for {stage / pro studio / home studio} / etc..
Some parameters will come up from the sound exchange club scene.
The search in the synth library will use some of these parameters, and the plugin search in the DAW will use some of these and some other parameters.
Multiselect can be turned on optionally, to add up combined results.
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- KVRist
- 319 posts since 9 Sep, 2017
A DX-7 emulation on RetroMod would be a bit limited, and a matter of wise choice of the popular sounds.
This is because the sound creation itself is endless.
The dynamics again will play the most important role because the granularity with interaction of 6 oscillators is extremely fine.
The question is whether the typical vibe of the older models (not the II version) can be correctly sampled. Artifacts are very much part of the sound itself.
This is because the sound creation itself is endless.
The dynamics again will play the most important role because the granularity with interaction of 6 oscillators is extremely fine.
The question is whether the typical vibe of the older models (not the II version) can be correctly sampled. Artifacts are very much part of the sound itself.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1372 posts since 9 Jan, 2018
@dRowAudio: Well, what are your most-wished-for RetroMods? Assuming you're at liberty to divulge said information...
@HansP: No objections to the D-70, provided I could still get some of the D-50 sounds as well. Sorry the D-70 didn't get the respect it truly deserved back in the day. It's really what the D-50 should've been.
@HansP: No objections to the D-70, provided I could still get some of the D-50 sounds as well. Sorry the D-70 didn't get the respect it truly deserved back in the day. It's really what the D-50 should've been.
Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and even Deezer, whatever the hell Deezer is.
More fun at Twitter @watchfulactual
More fun at Twitter @watchfulactual
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- KVRist
- 319 posts since 9 Sep, 2017
Yeah people back then bought Roland because their stuff was serious but less expensive than Moog, Kurzweil, etc.
Thus the D-70 was already on the brink of purse.
Its drum sounds are good too, Eighties are back hahaha...
This too supports my idea to focus on the D-70. You need those drums and perc.
DX7 emulators may sound great but rarely have that special analog sound (there are YT vids that explain the issue). Developing a sampling instrument for that one makes sense only when it does that better, without compromising the clarity and truthful reproduction. So, not sure about that..
Thus the D-70 was already on the brink of purse.
Its drum sounds are good too, Eighties are back hahaha...
This too supports my idea to focus on the D-70. You need those drums and perc.
DX7 emulators may sound great but rarely have that special analog sound (there are YT vids that explain the issue). Developing a sampling instrument for that one makes sense only when it does that better, without compromising the clarity and truthful reproduction. So, not sure about that..
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- KVRist
- 42 posts since 7 Jul, 2018
That’s true. I used to have a DX7 and the emulators are far too « nice ». Having said that, I think a big attraction of the DX7 was as a complete instrument - the way the sound interacted with the excellent keybed.
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- KVRAF
- 2348 posts since 9 Oct, 2008 from UK
When I first joined KVR - several years earlier than my user details report - I had an idea of writing a program that would read .fxp and .fxb details for a plug-in (to get an idea which values were continuous and which had a range of separate values (there's a better way of saying that - if I had time I'd check a stats book to get them)) and come up with some randomised patches (or whatever the term is these days). I was a bit bothered about how I'd make sure the randomised sounds wouldn't shred anyone's hearing. Didn't get round to writing it in the end though. Most of them would have probably been hideous.
[W10-64, T5/6/7/W8/9/10/11/12/13, 32(to W8)&64 all, Spike],[W7-32, T5/6/7/W8, Gina16] everything underused.
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- KVRAF
- 3735 posts since 17 Sep, 2016
RetroMod is an interesting concept.
I would even think that sampling a true "digital" synthesizer might be worthwhile, as compared to modeling it, such as a Yamaha DX-7, etc. But I will stop right there and even suggest to not bother with sampling the digital "ROMpler" synths, such as the Roland JV-1080 and its offspring, or the Korg M-1 and others. These synths generate sounds by playing back a compressed sample of a recorded sound.
I own a hardware JV-1080 and a keyboard version of a JV-2080, fully expanded. These are workhorse sound generators, but asking to sample this technology to create a "new" virtual synth just seems a bit over the top to me. If these were actual synthesizers, it would be a different discussion. Ideally, a faithful digital emulation would be the only productive route for these machines.
The idea of sampling a sampler just seems to be something of an oxymoron.
I have the full IK Syntronik classic synth collection and I can say that sampling of classic analog hardware synths can be an effective way of capturing the original sound, without having to model (emulate) it. IK did a good job of providing modeled analog filter types to process these sampled oscillators, and followed that up with a high quality FX section. Overall they sound great.... the goal of this series is to capture the soul of classic hardware synthesizers and add something new – a contemporary twist
... Each instrument is sampled meticulously and in great detail in order to guarantee the greatest realism.
I would even think that sampling a true "digital" synthesizer might be worthwhile, as compared to modeling it, such as a Yamaha DX-7, etc. But I will stop right there and even suggest to not bother with sampling the digital "ROMpler" synths, such as the Roland JV-1080 and its offspring, or the Korg M-1 and others. These synths generate sounds by playing back a compressed sample of a recorded sound.
I own a hardware JV-1080 and a keyboard version of a JV-2080, fully expanded. These are workhorse sound generators, but asking to sample this technology to create a "new" virtual synth just seems a bit over the top to me. If these were actual synthesizers, it would be a different discussion. Ideally, a faithful digital emulation would be the only productive route for these machines.
The idea of sampling a sampler just seems to be something of an oxymoron.
Windows 10 and too many plugins
