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Hez
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475 posts since 10 Dec, 2013

Postby Hez; Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:58 am Re: 2.4 vid is out

mholloway wrote:Would it be possible for someone to quickly, succinctly describe what the purpose and usefulness of these new MIDI Channel features are? As a 100% "in the box" guy, I don't really have any idea what is being upgraded / offered here with these, but I'm sure some hardware folks could explain it?

And, is there anything it offers the non-hardware user?

I'm psyched about Sampler and especially the two new modulators, but as for the MIDI stuff everybody's talking about, even after looking at the pictures with the stacks of Channels, I honestly don't know what the heck any of it does!

thanks,
-M


A few use cases off the top of my head:

- Required to get proper usage out of multi-timbral VSTs like Falcon & Kontakt. You can load 4 separate instruments in one Kontakt instance for example, and then route 4 separate channels of MIDI into it to play each instrument with separate notes. This can all be done on a single Bitwig track now.

- Like antic mentioned above, you can now use the Bitwig instrument layer along with separated MIDI channels to have multiple instruments on the same track, playing different notes. A good example of this might be if you had two synths playing in harmony or counterpoint, now you can capture all that on a single track and keep your arrangement cleaner

- Some VST effects can be triggered by MIDI (e.g. Looperator by Sugar Bytes allows you to change preset via midi note input). Instead of having to create a separate track just to send notes to do that, you could now have one midi channel dedicated to actually playing your VST instrument, then another channel changing presets on Looperator

- A few cool standalone software tools (e.g. the incredible XronoMorph midi sequencer) send out multi-channel MIDI. It's currently a massive PITA to use with Bitwig as channel information isn't retained when you record a stream of MIDI from it. This will be remedied with 2.4.

I'm sure there's loads more use cases but those are the first that came to mind (for my workflow at least).
kpv
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56 posts since 13 Mar, 2018

Postby kpv; Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:24 am Re: 2.4 vid is out

Now that the sampler and midi channels have been covered, and those have been requested by alot of users, I hope Bitwig will focus on the DAW itself and its fundamentals - the piano roll especially along with workflow improvements and most importantly the GUI being rendered by CPU. I'm no specialist but it appears to me that Bitwig is by far the most "creative" DAW on the market and I'd love to see the devs focus more on the DAW itself instead of adding features, devices etc. :D
mholloway
KVRian
 
933 posts since 10 Jan, 2009, from Portland, OR, USA

Postby mholloway; Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:32 am Re: 2.4 vid is out

kpv wrote:Now that the sampler and midi channels have been covered, and those have been requested by alot of users, I hope Bitwig will focus on the DAW itself and its fundamentals - the piano roll especially along with workflow improvements and most importantly the GUI being rendered by CPU. I'm no specialist but it appears to me that Bitwig is by far the most "creative" DAW on the market and I'd love to see the devs focus more on the DAW itself instead of adding features, devices etc. :D



I think I agree with this. I'm pretty sure that the GUI being rendered by the CPU is responsible for why my iMac fan is always running heavy whenever Bitwig is open (even in an empty project!).

It's actually loud enough, my fan, that it's distracting / overlaps with the music I'm trying to work on, which is super frustrating....my other DAWs don't have this behavior, and I think the GUI is to blame :(
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rodanmusic
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97 posts since 13 Jan, 2015, from SLC, UT

Postby rodanmusic; Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:08 am Re: 2.4 vid is out

mholloway wrote:
kpv wrote:Now that the sampler and midi channels have been covered, and those have been requested by alot of users, I hope Bitwig will focus on the DAW itself and its fundamentals - the piano roll especially along with workflow improvements and most importantly the GUI being rendered by CPU. I'm no specialist but it appears to me that Bitwig is by far the most "creative" DAW on the market and I'd love to see the devs focus more on the DAW itself instead of adding features, devices etc. :D



I think I agree with this. I'm pretty sure that the GUI being rendered by the CPU is responsible for why my iMac fan is always running heavy whenever Bitwig is open (even in an empty project!).

It's actually loud enough, my fan, that it's distracting / overlaps with the music I'm trying to work on, which is super frustrating....my other DAWs don't have this behavior, and I think the GUI is to blame :(


Try running Bitwig in low resolution mode (looks like Bitwig 1 basically) and see if that helps. A user on another thread said it helped with his fans spinning.
Quack Quack
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55 posts since 1 Dec, 2008

Postby Quack Quack; Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:52 pm Re: 2.4 vid is out

Hez wrote:Guys you can approximate velocity ramps in a Bitwig way using the note velocity device and automating it. It's more fun than drawing velocity ramps by hand because you can put some modulator on it and get weird shit to happen!

I would still like to see some workflow improvements to midi editing, but there are ways of achieving most things in bitwig now if you think outside the box, particularly once midi channels are introduced in 2.4.

This is a fun creative way to play around with music, but when I want a simple snare roll or I have a client in the studio having that simple workflow tool that every daw has is a must. Talked to a dev 2 years ago they said they would add it, he must have gotten fired.
Echoes in the Attic
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6121 posts since 12 May, 2008

Postby Echoes in the Attic; Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:48 am Re: 2.4 vid is out

I wonder how much of the new sampler controls will be controllable by controller scripts like for push. For example the crossfade isn’t a knob but up near the waveform. And switching between sample modes and all that, I hope after loading a sample that the rest is tweakable from a controller. I won’t have a computer for at least another month as I’m traveling so I look forward to hearing about this in the beta stage. So much good stuff has happened since I’ve last had a computer 2 mo the ago, especially with regards to mpe and granular. Omnisphere has an update with more layers and apparently much lower granular cpu consumption on pc and now the granular sampler in bitwig along with midi channel recording, which will also make using Omnisphere better for mpe. Can’t wait for all this!
Last edited by Echoes in the Attic on Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
 
758 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Postby Hanz Meyzer; Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:23 am Re: 2.4 vid is out

Does anybody know if 2.4 beta feels faster GUI wise? I don't mean that in some esoteric way of measurement, but obvious speed increase, e.g. if you use Bitwig on a 4k screen, having like 8+ tracks and then trying to scroll the song view or edit in the pianoroll.
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pdxindy
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13716 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:45 am Re: 2.4 vid is out

Hanz Meyzer wrote:Does anybody know if 2.4 beta feels faster GUI wise? I don't mean that in some esoteric way of measurement, but obvious speed increase, e.g. if you use Bitwig on a 4k screen, having like 8+ tracks and then trying to scroll the song view or edit in the pianoroll.


They said that they are working on that, and that it would take a while. I'm pretty sure 2.4 doesn't have those speed improvements yet because it seems like something that would be mentioned on the announcement page.
Hanz Meyzer
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758 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Postby Hanz Meyzer; Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:39 am Re: 2.4 vid is out

pdxindy wrote:They said that they are working on that, and that it would take a while. I'm pretty sure 2.4 doesn't have those speed improvements yet because it seems like something that would be mentioned on the announcement page.


I am not sure about that, since they officially ignored the GUI speed problem (except the one forum post). If you asked the support about it, they put the blame on you, instead saying "yes it is a problem and we are working on it". Would be strange to suddenly admit it.

Maybe there are at least some speed ups? Because I cannot upgrade to 2.4, until the DAW becomes pretty much usable with a medium+ size project / the input does work on load.
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pdxindy
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13716 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:40 am Re: 2.4 vid is out

Hanz Meyzer wrote:
pdxindy wrote:They said that they are working on that, and that it would take a while. I'm pretty sure 2.4 doesn't have those speed improvements yet because it seems like something that would be mentioned on the announcement page.


I am not sure about that, since they officially ignored the GUI speed problem (except the one forum post). If you asked the support about it, they put the blame on you, instead saying "yes it is a problem and we are working on it". Would be strange to suddenly admit it.


They said they are working on offloading the GUI to the GPU... and they do understand it is a problem...
Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
 
6121 posts since 12 May, 2008

Postby Echoes in the Attic; Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:51 am Re: 2.4 vid is out

pdxindy wrote:
mholloway wrote:Would it be possible for someone to quickly, succinctly describe what the purpose and usefulness of these new MIDI Channel features are? As a 100% "in the box" guy, I don't really have any idea what is being upgraded / offered here with these, but I'm sure some hardware folks could explain it?

And, is there anything it offers the non-hardware user?

I'm psyched about Sampler and especially the two new modulators, but as for the MIDI stuff everybody's talking about, even after looking at the pictures with the stacks of Channels, I honestly don't know what the heck any of it does!

thanks,
-M


Bitwig from 2.4 will store the midi channel info with the notes. This is essential for MPE stuff. For example, my Linnstrument if I play 3 note chord C - G - E... C will be on one midi channel, G another and E another. Previously, Bitwig ignored the midi channel data as created by my Linnstrument and when in Force MPE mode, automatically cycled through midi channels internally. This worked in some situations and not others.

Now Bitwig will actually record what I play and presumably be able to export my midi playing as I played it including midi channel data.

Another example would be multi-timbral VST instruments (for example Kontakt). They depend on using different midi channel for each sound.

Obviously multi-timbral hardware will benefit the same way.


Another benefit of the new midi filtering device along with per channel midi, which people don’t talk about much, is that when you layer instruments and filter them for specific midi channels, you can also get per voice effects. So for example you could layer 5 or 6 instances of polysynth, each filtered to receive in a different midi channel, and each one could have an effect after it, like a distortion, which gives a very different sound to all voices going into a single distortion unit. And of course the effects could have per voice modulations like envelopes etc. and not only can the effects have different settings per channel/voice, but so can the instrument itself, like a 4 or 8 voice oberheim SEM or something. And with bitwigs brilliant macros you could set up macros that effect those parameters on all layers but still be able to modify single layer parameters.

Of course this requires a controller that can cycle through midi channels, or you can use the bitwig touch screen keyboard/grid. But if you have that, it’s super useful for more than just mpe and per note modulation, it opens up all kinds of per voice effect and sound variation possibilities. This was already possible with kontakt and Omnisphere as they have effects per midi channel instrument but now you can do it with any instrument in bitwigs racks thanks to the midi filter. And you don’t necessarily have to use a single midi channel per instrument. You could for example have layer one respond to channels 2 and 6, layer two respond to channels 3 and 7, then 4 and 8, then 5 and 9. For example, for less layers to deal with.
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Scoox
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106 posts since 8 May, 2008

Postby Scoox; Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:18 pm Re: 2.4 vid is out

A very impressive update but, judging by the video, the basics are STILL not covered. I mean, how can people be worrying about modulators and other petty cr*p when not even the first item of the following list has been implemented yet? (in descending order of importance):

1. Undo last pass & undo all passes while loop recording
2. Linked clips (like in FL Studio)
3. Automation clips (like in FL Studio)
4. Take recording & copming

F*ck me, items 2, 3 and 4 I could work around and live without, but the first one, come one, THAT should have been a feature since the first release. Don't you people ever loop-record MIDI?? the current loop-recording implementation outright reeks. Duh!

But hopefully I'm wrong and some of these have been implemented in the 2.4 release, and they just haven't told us yet.
mholloway
KVRian
 
933 posts since 10 Jan, 2009, from Portland, OR, USA

Postby mholloway; Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:43 pm Re: 2.4 vid is out

Scoox wrote:A very impressive update but, judging by the video, the basics are STILL not covered. I mean, how can people be worrying about modulators and other petty cr*p when not even the first item of the following list has been implemented yet? (in descending order of importance):

1. Undo last pass & undo all passes while loop recording
2. Linked clips (like in FL Studio)
3. Automation clips (like in FL Studio)
4. Take recording & copming

F*ck me, items 2, 3 and 4 I could work around and live without, but the first one, come one, THAT should have been a feature since the first release. Don't you people ever loop-record MIDI?? the current loop-recording implementation outright reeks. Duh!

But hopefully I'm wrong and some of these have been implemented in the 2.4 release, and they just haven't told us yet.


This is a highly typical case of "what's essential to me is obviously essential to everybody else, too" when, of course, it's not.
www.dwifh.com - old-school industrial music by DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER
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pdxindy
KVRAF
 
13716 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:10 pm Re: 2.4 vid is out

Scoox wrote:A very impressive update but, judging by the video, the basics are STILL not covered. I mean, how can people be worrying about modulators and other petty cr*p when not even the first item of the following list has been implemented yet? (in descending order of importance):

1. Undo last pass & undo all passes while loop recording
2. Linked clips (like in FL Studio)
3. Automation clips (like in FL Studio)
4. Take recording & copming


Everyone has different priorities.

I'd much rather have the new midi channel support than anything you listed above. I'd also rather have the greatly improved Sampler than your 4 wishes.

Of the 4 you listed, I would only consider #1 to be basic.

Also, these new features for 2.4 are in the basic workflow area.

Resizable tracks in Mix view
Resizable scenes in Arrange view
Colorable scenes
Controller take-over modes

Lastly, I'm excited about the new modulators because the ability to modulate per each new note was something I missed and want to use regularly. I'd rather have the new modulators than linked clips... which I have little interest in.
Scoox
KVRist
 
106 posts since 8 May, 2008

Postby Scoox; Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:17 pm Re: 2.4 vid is out

mholloway wrote:
Scoox wrote:A very impressive update but, judging by the video, the basics are STILL not covered. I mean, how can people be worrying about modulators and other petty cr*p when not even the first item of the following list has been implemented yet? (in descending order of importance):

1. Undo last pass & undo all passes while loop recording
2. Linked clips (like in FL Studio)
3. Automation clips (like in FL Studio)
4. Take recording & copming

F*ck me, items 2, 3 and 4 I could work around and live without, but the first one, come one, THAT should have been a feature since the first release. Don't you people ever loop-record MIDI?? the current loop-recording implementation outright reeks. Duh!

But hopefully I'm wrong and some of these have been implemented in the 2.4 release, and they just haven't told us yet.


This is a highly typical case of "what's essential to me is obviously essential to everybody else, too" when, of course, it's not.


Is it really? Do you do loop recording at all?
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