Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
Jim Roseberry
KVRist
438 posts since 9 May, 2005

Post Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:47 am

dellboy wrote:
Not so long ago it would have been compulsory to mention ProTools in a list like this one.
FWIW, It's only been more recently that the native version of ProTools has caught up with some of the better features in other native DAWs.

- 32Bit Float file support
- Per-clip EFX
- Realtime Fades
- Hybrid Buffering
- 64Bit Application
Jim Roseberry
Studio Cat Productions
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com

starise
KVRist
40 posts since 31 Aug, 2007

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:02 pm

How could you not like this GUI!

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VELLTONE MUSIC
KVRist
477 posts since 19 Sep, 2017 from Planet Earth

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:42 pm

Exactly this GUI gives you feeling like you enter a pro studio to record your stuff with some super cool studio guys sitting around giving you all space and tools you need :)
In my opinion releasing such a nice software product for free is great opportunity for tight budget producers to decide is this DAW enough for their needs or need paid one and will have positive impact on the market cuz other developers(i guess) will offer something more in near future to justify users money...or may not :)
Anyway if you like Cubase or other DAW and the price doesn't bother you it doesn't matter at all.Cheerz :)

starise
KVRist
40 posts since 31 Aug, 2007

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:39 am

If I were producing music for film and had like 500 midi tracks I would probably be using Cubase since it has many features that make working with those track counts a less troublesome process.

For the rest of us though CbB is totally fine. Don't forget this software costed me money to own up until very recently. I'm not implying CbB can't support lots of tracks. Most users don't exceed 100 tracks and CbB can do as many tracks as your computer can handle.

CbB can
-export just about any music file known to man
-import different file types into the same project
-does multi takes or lanes
-has slip editing
-has drag and drop capability. Just drag effect into the channel bin from the browswer
-loads and plays Rex (reason) loops and acid loops
-allows you to make your own loops
-GUI customization 3rd parties have made "skins"
-has keystrokes built in IOW hit say the "E" key in tracks view and the tracks all fill out the screen W for rewind R for record etc.
- scans multiple vst folders and sandboxes bad plugins without locking up the program.Try that in Ableton( yeah right)

Jim Roseberry
KVRist
438 posts since 9 May, 2005

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:26 pm

Two additional reasons why CbB is nice for folks who track "real" instruments:

Track Templates - can be added at any point during a project (not just the beginning).

Track Templates can be a great time/muse saver.

Say you always mic a drumkit with 9 mics (overhead L/R, 3 toms, kick, snare, room L/R).
You can save a Track Template of that... storing all input/routing of those 9 tracks.
Add the "Drumkit" Track Template to your project... and you're instantly ready to record.

Same with recording guitar...
Say you record a straight DI (for later re-amp options) as well as SM57, Royer R121, and Large Diaphragm condenser. All four tracks can be saved as a Track Template (with all inputs/routing ready to go).
Add the "Guitar" Track Template, and you're instantly ready to record the guitar.

SysEx (Patch dumps) - CbB can record/playback
This is particularly nice if you're using hardware/rack synths... and you want to be sure you've got all the proper sounds used for the recording.
Jim Roseberry
Studio Cat Productions
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com

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JoseC.
KVRist
419 posts since 14 Nov, 2005 from León, Spain

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:32 am

Jim Roseberry wrote:

SysEx (Patch dumps) - CbB can record/playback
This is particularly nice if you're using hardware/rack synths... and you want to be sure you've got all the proper sounds used for the recording.
That one is huge for me, because patch dumps don't live in a MIDI track, but in the Sysex View that is a very simple Sysex editor/librarian. I edit hardware synth sounds using the synth's front panel, and I request the patch dump from CbB's Sysex View using a dump request macro. I set the auto send flag for the patch dump in the Sysex view, so it gets sent to the synth on project loading, and this way I have total recall of all the synths sounds without using the synth's internal memory.

The nice thing about this workflow is that I can keep several versions of a sound saved with a project, but only use one of them. I can also keep a second project open at the same time just as librarian for patch archiving.

I don't know if Cubase can do this too, but I am pretty sure that no other Windows DAW can.
Cakewalk by Bandlab with all Sonar Platinum plugins and Melodyne Essential, Live 9, Komplete 12, a handful of hardware and software synths and some guitars. Currently obsessed by VCV Rack.

zzz00m
KVRian
1331 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:52 am

JoseC. wrote:
Jim Roseberry wrote:

SysEx (Patch dumps) - CbB can record/playback
This is particularly nice if you're using hardware/rack synths... and you want to be sure you've got all the proper sounds used for the recording.
I don't know if Cubase can do this too, but I am pretty sure that no other Windows DAW can.
That is something that Studio One definitely cannot do, but it looks like Cubase has this covered. I recall a lot of discussion of this topic from former Sonar users when Gibson shutdown Cakewalk. Cubase was the choice for many of the heavy hardware synth users. Good to know Cakewalk will still be an option. Cubase Pro + the hardware dongle was still a steep crossgrade price.

SysEx Messages / Bulk Dumps

https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... mps_c.html
Windows 10; with instruments from AIR, Ample Sound, AAS, Cakewalk, IK Multimedia, iZotope, KV331, NI, Seaweed Audio, SONiVOX, TAL, Tracktion, u-he, Way Out Ware, XLN, others...

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JoseC.
KVRist
419 posts since 14 Nov, 2005 from León, Spain

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:55 am

zzz00m wrote:
JoseC. wrote:
Jim Roseberry wrote:

SysEx (Patch dumps) - CbB can record/playback
This is particularly nice if you're using hardware/rack synths... and you want to be sure you've got all the proper sounds used for the recording.
I don't know if Cubase can do this too, but I am pretty sure that no other Windows DAW can.
That is something that Studio One definitely cannot do, but it looks like Cubase has this covered. I recall a lot of discussion of this topic from former Sonar users when Gibson shutdown Cakewalk. Cubase was the choice for many of the heavy hardware synth users. Good to know Cakewalk will still be an option. Cubase Pro + the hardware dongle was still a steep crossgrade price.

SysEx Messages / Bulk Dumps

https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... mps_c.html
Yes, but just being able to record a sysex bulk dump in a midi track (Reaper can, Live does not, S1 neither it seems), is not the same as Cakewalk does. Cakewalk can take large sysex data dumps and stores them in the Sysex View as Sysex banks, instead of as events in a track. Shorter sysex messages, can be placed as events, but larger Sysex banks get sent either by a send command embedded in the midi track at the desired time, or on project loading if auto send is enabled for that particular dump, or manually from the Sysex View at any time without need of starting the transport.

Of course Cakewalk can record the dump, too, arming a midi track and starting recording, and sending the dump from the synth's front panel, that is the most basic and standard way of doing things, but it also gives you the Sysex View as an editor librarian per project that is not dependent of any track and that can function with a stopped transport. You can store as many dumps as you want per project (up to more than 2,500 I believe) edit them, rename them and even export them as .syx files if you want.

Say that I program a bass patch in a synth. I request the dump, store it in the Sysex View and flag it to be auto sent back to the synth on project loading. If I modify it later, I just request the new dump, store it in another Sysex View slot, name it, and flag it to be auto sent instead of the other, but I keep the old one just in case I want to use it again later.
Cakewalk by Bandlab with all Sonar Platinum plugins and Melodyne Essential, Live 9, Komplete 12, a handful of hardware and software synths and some guitars. Currently obsessed by VCV Rack.

Resonant- Serpent
KVRist
281 posts since 23 Sep, 2008

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:00 am

One advantage with Cakewalk is that it still loads 32 bit plugs, so you can use all the crazy free vst that have been released over the last 20 years.

If you want extended MIDI capability in Cakewalk, pick up Frank's MIDI plugs: https://www.midi-plugins.de/#Home
What sound do dreams make when they die?

starise
KVRist
40 posts since 31 Aug, 2007

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:49 am

I'm not sure if the ability to use 32 bit plugins is going to continue into the future. I hope it does.
I believe one reason many daws have gone strictly to 64 bit plugins is they want to maintain current development cycles and avoid the liability that sometimes happens when a daw encounters an older poorly written 32 bit plugin. In some cases it seizes up the entire daw. They want to avoid this so they went to strictly 64 bit which guarantees older undeveloped plugins are omitted.
CbB gets around some of this by including a feature called "sandboxing" which continues to scan the vst folder but "sandboxes" the plugin that didn't scan correctly. The program also remembers prior scans and launches faster in subsequent projects, unlike some others that insist on scanning all folders every time you launch.

Even with these features they place themselves at a certain potential liability to keep 32bit vst.

Until then, go out and get all of those free plugins!

sprnva
KVRian
1328 posts since 16 Jan, 2013

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:07 am

You can restore the 32-bit support in Cubase 9.x relatively easily by replacing a couple of files (or one bundle on macOS) with their 8.x versions.
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dellboy
KVRian
703 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:19 am

Resonant- Serpent wrote:One advantage with Cakewalk is that it still loads 32 bit plugs, so you can use all the crazy free vst that have been released over the last 20 years.

If you want extended MIDI capability in Cakewalk, pick up Frank's MIDI plugs: https://www.midi-plugins.de/#Home
Not only does it load 32 bit plugins,but it does it on the fly while the program is running. I often just drop a 32 bit plugin into my VST folder and Sonar scans it and makes it available for use immediately and without a reboot.

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Gonga
KVRAF
2081 posts since 28 Feb, 2011

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:04 pm

Been running Cake for about 20 years. Also used Cubase 6, 7 and 8. Have yet to try Bandcamp's version. Prefer the Cake due mainly to user interface. Cubase took me much too long to figure out, and then I still couldn't remember how to do stuff because of the illogical, unnecessarily complex interface.

I have been playing keyboards for about 40 years, and as far as I know, SONAR is unmatched for hardware SYSEX. Though I often prefer using separate SYSEX software to control patches for each synth, like FM-Alive for Yamaha and QS Edit Pro for the Alesis.

Cake has a great audio engine. It was a powerful multitrack audio recorder early on. It is still very good for recording live multitrack audio. [ed]

I think of "SONAR" as an old-school PC DAW that does audio, hardware keyboards, and user-friendly workflow best.
Last edited by Gonga on Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zzz00m
KVRian
1331 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:48 pm

Gonga wrote:
Cake started out as an audio engine. It was a multitrack audio recorder before midi.
You got that backwards.
Windows 10; with instruments from AIR, Ample Sound, AAS, Cakewalk, IK Multimedia, iZotope, KV331, NI, Seaweed Audio, SONiVOX, TAL, Tracktion, u-he, Way Out Ware, XLN, others...

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planetearth
KVRian
1396 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Re: Bandlab Cakewak vs Cubase

Post Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:31 pm

zzz00m wrote:
Gonga wrote:
Cake started out as an audio engine. It was a multitrack audio recorder before midi.
You got that backwards.
zzz00m is right on this one. I started on Cakewalk for DOS, and it was just MIDI. Even the first Windows versions were just MIDI.

Cakewalk 9 (also called "Cakewalk Pro Audio") was one of the first versions to add digital audio, but it, Windows 3.11, and the desktop computers available at the time were not really ready for it. :wink:

Steve
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife.

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