Psalter/Hymn Orchestration, need help!

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mediumaevum
KVRist
144 posts since 14 Feb, 2013

Post Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:09 am

https://soundcloud.com/mediumaevum-arti ... sh-psalter

I composed this psalter/hymn tune years ago, but so far I've struggled orchestrating it. Originally it was written for choir, 4 voices. I need some help especially in regards to the transition/build-up at 2:23. I also need to know how to properly orchestrate the beginning with the harps and flute. It doesn't quite seem to work.

I would appreciate any feedback/help I can get.

ChamMusic
KVRian
893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006

Re: Psalter/Hymn Orchestration, need help!

Post Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:53 am

Flute and harp at the beginning:

The BIGGEST issue is that they basically move together all the time...unnatural and not very interesting.

They should be weaving around each other, at least to some extent in terms of both melodic and rhythmic shapes.

2:23 rise:

You're using the wrong note lengths for me....

Most rises of this sort get 'faster' in terms of note length, maybe...

1 beat of quavers
1 beat of triplet quavers
1 beat of semiquavers
1 beat of triplet semiquavers

Doesn't have to be exactly that, obviously, its the principle that is important.

Also that rise is the time to bring in more layers at the end of the phrase - more woodwind , brass etc?

Final rise comment - the rhythmic and melodic shapes in the rise should really be taken from the material in your main sections...at last to some extent.

mediumaevum
KVRist
144 posts since 14 Feb, 2013

Re: Psalter/Hymn Orchestration, need help!

Post Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:45 am

ChamMusic wrote:Flute and harp at the beginning:

The BIGGEST issue is that they basically move together all the time...unnatural and not very interesting.

They should be weaving around each other, at least to some extent in terms of both melodic and rhythmic shapes.

2:23 rise:

You're using the wrong note lengths for me....

Most rises of this sort get 'faster' in terms of note length, maybe...

1 beat of quavers
1 beat of triplet quavers
1 beat of semiquavers
1 beat of triplet semiquavers

Doesn't have to be exactly that, obviously, its the principle that is important.

Also that rise is the time to bring in more layers at the end of the phrase - more woodwind , brass etc?

Final rise comment - the rhythmic and melodic shapes in the rise should really be taken from the material in your main sections...at last to some extent.
I need a tutorial. I can't find any on youtube on how to make _STRINGS_ build-ups for CLASSICAL music. They've got all sorts of buildups for trailers, pop etc. But I want this style of Vaughan Williams/Gustav Holst build-ups. I want a tutorial specifically for classical music build-ups and I cannot find any.

It's kinda frustrating so to say the least!

ChamMusic
KVRian
893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006

Re: Psalter/Hymn Orchestration, need help!

Post Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:23 pm

mediumaevum wrote:
ChamMusic wrote:Flute and harp at the beginning:

The BIGGEST issue is that they basically move together all the time...unnatural and not very interesting.

They should be weaving around each other, at least to some extent in terms of both melodic and rhythmic shapes.

2:23 rise:

You're using the wrong note lengths for me....

Most rises of this sort get 'faster' in terms of note length, maybe...

1 beat of quavers
1 beat of triplet quavers
1 beat of semiquavers
1 beat of triplet semiquavers

Doesn't have to be exactly that, obviously, its the principle that is important.

Also that rise is the time to bring in more layers at the end of the phrase - more woodwind , brass etc?

Final rise comment - the rhythmic and melodic shapes in the rise should really be taken from the material in your main sections...at last to some extent.
I need a tutorial. I can't find any on youtube on how to make _STRINGS_ build-ups for CLASSICAL music. They've got all sorts of buildups for trailers, pop etc. But I want this style of Vaughan Williams/Gustav Holst build-ups. I want a tutorial specifically for classical music build-ups and I cannot find any.

It's kinda frustrating so to say the least!
You won't find one that' s very specific for one very simple reason:

Every classical music buildup, as you call it, is based around the thematic material in the individual piece...so they're all potentially very different.


Basic guidelines(not rules):

Use your main thematic material in some way for max impact...either from the preceding section, the new section or preferably both!

It's a Rise - pitch should obviously ascend..often staring quite gradually and becoming more dramatic towards the moment 'change'

Rhythm - should also become more dramatic and energetic as the rise unfolds.

Texture - the amount of layers involved often increases during a 'rise'.

mediumaevum
KVRist
144 posts since 14 Feb, 2013

Re: Psalter/Hymn Orchestration, need help!

Post Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:36 am

I've made some changes in regard to the criticism, please let me know which version you favor:
https://soundcloud.com/mediumaevum-artist/the-prophecy

ChamMusic
KVRian
893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006

Re: Psalter/Hymn Orchestration, need help!

Post Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:18 am

New version is a significant improvement, especially in the first section with the harp and woodwind...all parts here flow around each other much better for me.

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