From a programming point of view, it's really over-engineered, yet doesn't treat MIDI as a first-class citizen. There's no way to know what order the MIDI messages came in. As well, you have to make hundreds of bogus MIDI parameters just to support MIDI learn, IIRC. It ain't pretty...
Bitwig VS Ableton
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- KVRAF
- 2239 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest
I started on Logic 5 with a PowerBook G4 550Mhz. I now have a MacBook Air M1 and it's ~165x faster! So, why is my music not proportionally better? 
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- KVRian
- 630 posts since 29 Dec, 2019
I couldn't care less about CLAP, since the DAWs I use probably won't even entertain supporting it and it is not something worth switching over.
VST3 is a lot better than VST2, and Steinberg gave developers almost a decade to move over. Them not moving over had very little to do with VST2 being better.
Moaners are going to moan. If VST is so bad, they can always move to a Mac and use a DAW that supports AU. Then, they won't have to deal with VST at all.
VST3 is a lot better than VST2, and Steinberg gave developers almost a decade to move over. Them not moving over had very little to do with VST2 being better.
Moaners are going to moan. If VST is so bad, they can always move to a Mac and use a DAW that supports AU. Then, they won't have to deal with VST at all.
If I said you are blocked, I won't see your posts. Please kindly refrain from quoting or replying to me.
"Notifications for Nothing" are annoying. Blocking me in return is a good way to avoid this.
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- KVRAF
- 8802 posts since 7 Oct, 2005
I use only AU when on Mac. All my old and new plugins support it and luckily Ableton Live is fantastic with AU support. I hope that Apple is not as stupid as Steinberg and won't drop Midi support in its format. Anyway, my Mini Mac is my main music workstation while my PC is a secondary/backup setup.
On Windows, I use sometimes VST2 and sometimes VST3 but VST2 is my preferred one as some old plugins still using VST2 (FM8, Absynth, ..etc). I believe that the CLAP format is promising but it needs at least some years ahead to be adopted by most developers. For now it is early to talk about CLAP and if survives or not in the future.
On Windows, I use sometimes VST2 and sometimes VST3 but VST2 is my preferred one as some old plugins still using VST2 (FM8, Absynth, ..etc). I believe that the CLAP format is promising but it needs at least some years ahead to be adopted by most developers. For now it is early to talk about CLAP and if survives or not in the future.
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- KVRer
- 10 posts since 7 Jan, 2023
Just my two cents; I've tried both (started with Live, tried Bitwig for a while, went back to Live). Bitwig's audio warping abilities (like changing pitch and speed of samples) is much better, and it has plugin sandboxing which is great, meaning it's less likely to crash on you. Overall though Live has a much easier workflow though. I definitely prefer ease-of-use over features. Live is also more established and tends to come with more stuff, especially if you buy the suite (its built-in effects and instruments are really good, especially now that they come with analog emulation and stuff like that). Definitely recommend Ableton Live 11.
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- KVRAF
- 25433 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
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- KVRAF
- 2302 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA
Weird -- most folks (including me) think Live easily wins when it comes to warping audio. What do you think Bitwig does better about it?sscheetah wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:45 am Just my two cents; I've tried both (started with Live, tried Bitwig for a while, went back to Live). Bitwig's audio warping abilities (like changing pitch and speed of samples) is much better, and it has plugin sandboxing which is great, meaning it's less likely to crash on you. Overall though Live has a much easier workflow though. I definitely prefer ease-of-use over features. Live is also more established and tends to come with more stuff, especially if you buy the suite (its built-in effects and instruments are really good, especially now that they come with analog emulation and stuff like that). Definitely recommend Ableton Live 11.
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- KVRist
- 69 posts since 10 Feb, 2017 from Canada
Agreed. When I run drums through Bitwig's warping I tend to end up with a metallic edge to it. It's not bad sounding per se, but I much prefer Ableton's warping algos from an auditory perspective.mholloway wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:04 amWeird -- most folks (including me) think Live easily wins when it comes to warping audio. What do you think Bitwig does better about it?sscheetah wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:45 am Just my two cents; I've tried both (started with Live, tried Bitwig for a while, went back to Live). Bitwig's audio warping abilities (like changing pitch and speed of samples) is much better, and it has plugin sandboxing which is great, meaning it's less likely to crash on you. Overall though Live has a much easier workflow though. I definitely prefer ease-of-use over features. Live is also more established and tends to come with more stuff, especially if you buy the suite (its built-in effects and instruments are really good, especially now that they come with analog emulation and stuff like that). Definitely recommend Ableton Live 11.
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- KVRer
- 10 posts since 7 Jan, 2023
Not sure, that's really interesting! We are going back a few years, so maybe Ableton has upped their game since then? The warping in Live is way EASIER for sure, I love the handles system which is easier than Bitwig to use, but I thought it sounded more artefact-y compared to Bitwig. In Bitwig I felt like I could get away with more extreme changes without getting those metallic artefacts. Maybe it was just the specific samples I was using?mholloway wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:04 amWeird -- most folks (including me) think Live easily wins when it comes to warping audio. What do you think Bitwig does better about it?sscheetah wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:45 am Just my two cents; I've tried both (started with Live, tried Bitwig for a while, went back to Live). Bitwig's audio warping abilities (like changing pitch and speed of samples) is much better, and it has plugin sandboxing which is great, meaning it's less likely to crash on you. Overall though Live has a much easier workflow though. I definitely prefer ease-of-use over features. Live is also more established and tends to come with more stuff, especially if you buy the suite (its built-in effects and instruments are really good, especially now that they come with analog emulation and stuff like that). Definitely recommend Ableton Live 11.
Anyway, if people are thinking Live's warping sounds better now too, there really wouldn't be any reason to go for Bitwig then. Live has a far better interface and workflow along with a broader set of included tools, so I guess it wins on all fronts?
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- KVRAF
- 2239 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest
Hang on, I need to get my popcorn.
I started on Logic 5 with a PowerBook G4 550Mhz. I now have a MacBook Air M1 and it's ~165x faster! So, why is my music not proportionally better?
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- KVRer
- 10 posts since 7 Jan, 2023
Hahaha, I guess I'm a bit of a fanboy
not trying to start a fight over it though, so I think I'll leave it at that. Bitwig definitely has its appeal and I totally respect it if anyone prefers it. Not to mention that customer support is at least as good as Ableton's too—they gave me a 30 day trial licence back when I wanted to try it out back then, which was really nice of them.Edit: Also, I'm really annoyed at Ableton for not including plugin sandboxing in Live. Bitwig definitely wins that one.
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- KVRAF
- 2239 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest
I've tried both, Bitwig moreso than Live. They both have their pluses and minuses, but they both seem to be made for keyboard navigation. Mousing around in them is tedious, but I tend to favor my mouse since I'm constantly adding/moving notes, adjusting mixers as I go, etc. I think I only use the keyboard for starting/stopping the transport and naming things.sscheetah wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 5:30 amHahaha, I guess I'm a bit of a fanboy
Edit: Also, I'm really annoyed at Ableton for not including plugin sandboxing in Live. Bitwig definitely wins that one.
These two have tiny, fiddly things to click. I try to use Logic, which really has an open, inviting look (if a bit too candy-coated), but Apple went and hid everything, expecting more keyboard shortcut usage.
I started on Logic 5 with a PowerBook G4 550Mhz. I now have a MacBook Air M1 and it's ~165x faster! So, why is my music not proportionally better?
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- KVRAF
- 4502 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest
macros use relative offsets instead of absolute ranges so they don't block the target controls, basically, one automated macro can drive many other paramssscheetah wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 5:30 amHahaha, I guess I'm a bit of a fanboy
Edit: Also, I'm really annoyed at Ableton for not including plugin sandboxing in Live. Bitwig definitely wins that one.
this part(modulation framework) is better in Bitwig for sure (and has a mixer at least
)ps. and BWS knows MIDI channels in its inner routing for ex. voices of chords can be split and assigned to different MIDI channels and sent to diff. instruments using only one track/devices
ps2. offtopic but would like to mention after 6 major 4 minor
versions Captian Chord finally has a proper MIDI editor
always missed scale highlighting and chord tracks in BWS ...
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat
