Dissonant

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V0RT3X
KVRAF
7254 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Canada

Post Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:53 am

****Updated****
https://soundcloud.com/user-841453413/s ... ant-tracks


**** Original Post below****
https://soundcloud.com/user-841453413/dissonant

BPM: 133
DAW: Live 9
Total Track Count: 6
Project Sample Rate : 48khz
Export: 48khz, 24bit

Random Notes on the track production below.

Entire thing was mixed on a pair of MDR-7506 headphones, so probably best heard on a good set of cans. Ideally if you listen on a pair of MDR-7506 you'll get close to the same thing I heard while making it.. :phones:

Not much of a lead-in to this track. I might fix that in the next version if I ever end up doing it.

I clicked in a bunch of creepy notes while testing out a few things and decided I'd create a whole track using these notes. Kind of like a mystery/horror track. Nothing was actually played, it was the result of many mouse clicks in Abletons Piano roll hence the ultra quantized feel to it.

I noticed I write a lot of dark, mysterious and sad music, not sure why? maybe its the result of subconscious depression. I should really start trying to create other stuff instead of focusing so much on the negative shit I see in this world.

The Sustained Piano-V sound was run through XLN Audios RC-20 for a bit of grunginess and warble. I also used the Wobble effect in Stereo for the panning effect you'll hear if you wear headphones.

Weird synth delay thing is Soundtoys PrimalTaps multiply knob being automated on a instance of Zebra2 using a simple custom patch. This generated those cool icy glitter kind of sounds.

Ableton 9O9 run through TAL-DAC (S1000 Preset) was used for one drum kit sound, TAL-Sampler with the DMX kit loaded up was another. I used Ableton Beat repeat on the DMX track to add the machine gun style beat you hear.

Arcsyn (custom preset) + Panman was used for the synth chug pan sound.

Not really sure what kind of Genre this is. Lots of lo-fi sounds and clashing melodic content in this though so i called it "dissonant" (I know, it's not very original considering I've named past tracks this as well)

Abletons MPC groove templates were used on a few things to make it less static sounding.

I had to freeze a ton because of a bunch of weird render bugs when trying to render the entire track played back from Midi. Also some parts wouldn't even properly automate when they were supposed to, so I basically played it safe and froze each part individually.

I've been finding automation errors and bugs in live9 since I installed soundtoys so I'm wondering if iLOK is responsible. If this is really what's going on.. I'll probably be selling these fine sounding plugins because I can't stand it when stuff messes with my system. I'm too tired right now to do a bunch of bug tests to make absolutely sure, but eventually I'll get to the bottom of this.

Echoboy was used on a Send which was sparingly used on a few tracks.

Also I'm kind of surprised that Echoboy and PrimalTap have so much latency.

I didn't really EQ anything apart from do a few HPF cuts to a few tracks to prevent the Bass from going too crazy.

Cytomic Glue was used on the entire mix and then sent into Presswerk (Limiter).

Originally i had a Vintageverb Reverb Send but decided against using it.
Last edited by V0RT3X on Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

spunkmuffin
KVRian
719 posts since 5 Sep, 2014

Re: Dissonant

Post Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:47 am

When the drum came in it's kind of funny, it almost sounds like a parody of some gumshoe detective music. I think the piano is too loud or the drums too quiet or something. I'm thinking...does the piano have too much or too little reverb? Not sure which. Or maybe it's the type of reverb.
The relationship between the piano and drum part is the heart of it but I don't think the balance is quite right. Maybe the drum should have a slow delay with deep reverb to make it feel more cavernous. It's meant to be spooky and deep, like empty streets at night I think but as it is now it's all too close to the listener. Mmaybe that's a headphone-mixing thing.
I like the idea though. Just my initial thoughts. Well done, I hope you remix it. If you do remix it please leave the first version up as I would like to compare. :tu:

edit: On second listen I think I was wrong about the loudness drums/piano balance. I'm thinking the piano + synth get kind of congested but also that's part of the charm of it and if you tried to 'fix' it some atmosphere would be lost. Maybe have a section where the synth or piano drop away completely and return later. I like the track. It has character. :) I think it could be longer too.
:hyper: M O N O S Y N T H S F O R E V E R :hyper:

woggle
KVRAF
2171 posts since 24 Nov, 2012

Re: Dissonant

Post Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:07 pm

I like the music - but without the drums :) That is almost always the case with me, so don't take it personally re your drum programming. Would like to hear a mix without the drums

I think because of conventional pop that people think drums are needed to hold a piece together, but they aren't at all

fastlanephil
KVRian
641 posts since 3 Jan, 2016

Re: Dissonant

Post Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:08 pm

Interesting music and quite subtle in nature except for that drum hit. The contrast probably makes this work although it kind of bugs you.

User avatar
V0RT3X
KVRAF
7254 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Canada

Re: Dissonant

Post Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:09 pm

spunkmuffin wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:47 am
When the drum came in it's kind of funny, it almost sounds like a parody of some gumshoe detective music. I think the piano is too loud or the drums too quiet or something. I'm thinking...does the piano have too much or too little reverb? Not sure which. Or maybe it's the type of reverb.
The relationship between the piano and drum part is the heart of it but I don't think the balance is quite right. Maybe the drum should have a slow delay with deep reverb to make it feel more cavernous. It's meant to be spooky and deep, like empty streets at night I think but as it is now it's all too close to the listener. Mmaybe that's a headphone-mixing thing.
I like the idea though. Just my initial thoughts. Well done, I hope you remix it. If you do remix it please leave the first version up as I would like to compare. :tu:

edit: On second listen I think I was wrong about the loudness drums/piano balance. I'm thinking the piano + synth get kind of congested but also that's part of the charm of it and if you tried to 'fix' it some atmosphere would be lost. Maybe have a section where the synth or piano drop away completely and return later. I like the track. It has character. :) I think it could be longer too.
I had a second listen, and I have to agree with you the drums don't work. I also think maybe there is too much melodic clash on some parts. It's almost like two different tracks are fighting to play at the same time. So i decided to print out two version without any drums. I thought about your cavernous drum idea, I'll give it a try at another point. Thanks for the feedback and listen :)

woggle wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:07 pm
I like the music - but without the drums :) That is almost always the case with me, so don't take it personally re your drum programming. Would like to hear a mix without the drums

I think because of conventional pop that people think drums are needed to hold a piece together, but they aren't at all
I agree! I uploaded a version without the drums. I actually don't really like programming drums and find it a bit tedious so maybe that's something I should really start to learn so it's not just a boring loop.

Anyhow I've updated the original post with the two other tracks along with the old one.

Thanks :phones:

fastlanephil
KVRian
641 posts since 3 Jan, 2016

Re: Dissonant

Post Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:11 pm

Interesting music and subtle in nature except for that drum hit. It’s what probably makes this work but it kind of bugged me.

User avatar
V0RT3X
KVRAF
7254 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Canada

Re: Dissonant

Post Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:14 pm

fastlanephil wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:11 pm
Interesting music and subtle in nature except for that drum hit. It’s what probably makes this work but it kind of bugged me.

Yah that drum hit is gone, I've taken it all out with the latest uploads. I've put two different versions up that don't have the drums anymore.

I was up super late making this track so I think my ears and brain were just "done' for the day

In The Mix
KVRist
162 posts since 5 Jun, 2017 from Los Angeles

Re: Dissonant

Post Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:01 pm

I liked it. It was planned and things were happening for a reason. I don't know if this was on purpose or what, but some of the delays didn't quiet sync with the beat for me. It could be that I was using earphones.
Image

User avatar
V0RT3X
KVRAF
7254 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Canada

Re: Dissonant

Post Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:06 pm

In The Mix wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:01 pm
I liked it. It was planned and things were happening for a reason. I don't know if this was on purpose or what, but some of the delays didn't quiet sync with the beat for me. It could be that I was using earphones.
I think it may also have been the PDC in ableton not working with Primal Tap or Echoboy. Primal Tap introduces 99ms of latency and Echoboy 32ms respectively.

I'll need to do more tests to confirm this though, but I know Ableton Live is notoriously bad for it's PDC implementation with some plugins.

In The Mix
KVRist
162 posts since 5 Jun, 2017 from Los Angeles

Re: Dissonant

Post Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:43 pm

Ok, so I just listened to it again with good headphones. Some elements are definitely lagging trying to catch up with the downbeat all the way through. They're late by a specific amount, so if you have stems, maybe you could just snap the first transient to the grid and it'll fix the whole thing?
Image

woggle
KVRAF
2171 posts since 24 Nov, 2012

Re: Dissonant

Post Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:21 pm

In The Mix wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:43 pm
Ok, so I just listened to it again with good headphones. Some elements are definitely lagging trying to catch up with the downbeat all the way through. They're late by a specific amount, so if you have stems, maybe you could just snap the first transient to the grid and it'll fix the whole thing?
Definitely how I would try it - print everything out to its own stem then use the stems as instruments in their own right - cut bits out, realign, effect more and so on.
Like the way the track is developing VORT3X - mix3 is my fav so far - I would make it even sparser as far as the fx goes as I like the piano the most. But that would be my mix, not yours :)
Enjoying what you've done,
woggle

spunkmuffin
KVRian
719 posts since 5 Sep, 2014

Re: Dissonant

Post Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:05 am

Mix2 first impressions. I'm listening on headphones. It's got that 'in your head' sound. Like everything is way too close with no depth. All the effects are just as close as the instrumental. It all should be pushed back, and the FX should be put in their own distinct space/s. I think there are a lot of ways to do this and I'm no expert but that's what I would try to do. Worth trying because the idea & music is working.

Mix3 - hehe so the piano track is here now. I think you've split the track in 2 so now you have 2 separate tracks. I kind of like Mix1 more than Mix3. Mix1 with the drums was interesting but I think it can be difficult to match & mix drums to a track but still worth the trouble.

So I like Mix1 and Mix2 more than Mix3 but I think Mix1 & Mix2 are separate tracks now. :)

edit: Further thoughts: I think all 3 tracks have a mixing problem like the musical elements are not separated enough. So maybe EQ them so they sit in their own place in the frequency spectrum better. Careful because I think you can overdo this. Also the depth/space thing should help in combination with the EQing. For depth use 1. (subtle) panning, 2. (subtle) individual reverbs, 3. mid/side processing. I'm attempting to learn this stuff myself so good luck. 8)

Regarding the delay effect in Mix3 I think what In The Mix said could be right. It sounds a bit OTT. :hihi:

edit2: Pls don't delete Mix 1, 2 or 3 just update with more once you have pulled some of you hair out. :D

edit3: Mix2 second listen impressions: I've changed my mind a bit. :D This track sounds like it is accompaniment for another track. So musically it sounds too sparse, but sound/mixwise it sounds too dense. Musically the piano is missing, it needs to be put back. Or maybe not. The disjointed synth line makes me think of a skeleton attempting to walk. It's like you've ripped out the bones from Mix1 and put them in Mix2 and taken all the flesh from 1 and put it into Mix3. :D But the problem with track1 is it had a few too many bones and a little too much flesh in the first place. I think you have a bit too much talent and don't know how to pare it back. Still, its a good problem to have. Good luck with that. :D Sorry I think I've written too much to be helpful, but that's what I think. :shrug:
:hyper: M O N O S Y N T H S F O R E V E R :hyper:

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