MSF vs Kaleidoscope

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werzel
KVRist
254 posts since 25 Jan, 2016

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:27 am

Has anyone on the beta testing team also tried Kaleidoscope? How do they compare? Should I add Kaleidoscope to my arsenal or will waiting on MSF make it unnecessary?

masitito
KVRist
196 posts since 4 Jun, 2016

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:51 pm

Are you talking about this: https://www.2caudio.com/products/kaleidoscope ?

Seems to be a quite specialized effect with an interesting approach to UI.

Masi

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XComposer
KVRist
271 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:05 pm

I'm not a beta tester so I don't know MSF, but Kaleidoscope is unique in my opinion. I use it a lot.
www.GKweb.it
Mac, OS X 10.11, Logic Pro X

werzel
KVRist
254 posts since 25 Jan, 2016

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:38 pm

That's the one. I am especially intrigued by the idea of using physical modeling as filter sources.

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KVRist
271 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:30 pm

Could you please explain this concept better? I'm interested myself in the idea and I was reflecting on it in these days.
www.GKweb.it
Mac, OS X 10.11, Logic Pro X

werzel
KVRist
254 posts since 25 Jan, 2016

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:37 pm

Although they call it Resonance, I believe that the Kaleidoscope page explains it better than I could.
https://www.2caudio.com/products/kaleid ... _Resonance

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KVRist
271 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:53 pm

Oh, I see, you mean the different kinds of resonators, yes. The beautiful and most important thing there is that you can control a huge number of them with images…

No, I was thinking to use "physical modeling as filter" with a different approach for one of my next pieces, something that has more to do with the source-filter model for sounds (see IRCAM TRAX Source Filter, for example) and may have to do with the "Special -> Objects" section of MTurboReverb, or also with MConvolution for example.
www.GKweb.it
Mac, OS X 10.11, Logic Pro X

werzel
KVRist
254 posts since 25 Jan, 2016

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:12 pm

I've seen some interesting youtube videos doing that basic idea with convolution. (A long time ago, I don't recall specifics.)
Fun stuff, so long as you don't set your heart on achieving exactly what you think will happen!

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KVRist
271 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:30 pm

Yes, you are right. As I am saying in another post right now (about MTurboReverb), I would like to explore "the possibility of loosely imagine to model my own "fantasy" non-existing impossible virtual instruments (including type of source exciter, shapes, sizes and materials) with the help of various softwares I have (by using them together)".
www.GKweb.it
Mac, OS X 10.11, Logic Pro X

mevla
KVRAF
2213 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:47 pm

I did not know about Kaleidoscope so I tried the demo. It registers in Bitwig as an audio processor, not as an instrument. Since this is a comparison between MSF and K, does that mean that MSF will also be an audio processor ? How can it be since there's already MXXX ?

Cheers.

werzel
KVRist
254 posts since 25 Jan, 2016

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:29 pm

I wasn't (and still am not) very informed or knowledgeable on Kaleidoscope, which was why I was asking. I had initially misread the literature and thought that there was also a generator. I'm not a beta tester here, so I only know whatever is mentioned about MSF. The talk of having sampling abilities would mean that we could use it as a processor, no?

jmg8
KVRAF
1960 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:35 am

I am really interested in physical modeling. I have been doing a lot of experimenting in MSF, so much fun.
BTW I made the MTurboReverb device "Objects"
i7/16gb/win10,64bit/Live10/MTotal. + Surface Pro 4 (i5)

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KVRist
271 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:40 am

Naive question… will something like "make a natural trumpet in bronze, with this thickness, shape and diameter, 3 meters long, with an oval 10 centimeters glass bell" be possible in MSF?"
www.GKweb.it
Mac, OS X 10.11, Logic Pro X

werzel
KVRist
254 posts since 25 Jan, 2016

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:30 am

I really enjoy that one jmg...and still wish that you had the time to do video exposés on some of your presets.
Are those materials from MRotary cabinets being run through IRs?

EDIT: Just noticed the other thread, ignore this.

jmg8
KVRAF
1960 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK

Re: MSF vs Kaleidoscope

Post Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:56 am

Thanks werzel.

Xcomposer.
Yes and no. MSF is already quite capable of physically modelling almost anything. However it has to be done manually, it can be tricky, with trial and error.
I recently made a piano in MSF that models the cabinet, soundboard, strings, mallets and dampers. It is all approximate though, the sound designer can not simply input 10 meters of steel and have it sound that way. You have to try to create the sound yourself.
I will share some physical modelling tips and tricks here on the forum soon to help inspire some cool new instruments.
i7/16gb/win10,64bit/Live10/MTotal. + Surface Pro 4 (i5)

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