What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

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Stamped Records
KVRist
82 posts since 20 Sep, 2018 from UK

Post Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:36 am

Lets suppose first of all that these are high quality, house and techno tracks in a modern style using only Bitwig without the use of loops or presets (so every detail is unique and can be viewed and edited).

What might the market be for something like that, if it existed?

If there is a market for it, what might the market be like for exclusivity of such a thing, meaning, selling each project only once....

Hypo Intellect
KVRist
40 posts since 5 Nov, 2018

Re: What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

Post Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:42 am

I only use templates for various hardware setups, which saves me lots of time with configuration, as long as I put cables correctly. This isn't something someone else could create unless they used an identical setup. I'm not interested in style templates as a basis to make music, as it stifles my own creativity, though that is not to say it is of no value to others.

Yokai
KVRist
320 posts since 7 Nov, 2017

Re: What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

Post Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:46 am

Honestly, I think of a "template" as a blank starting point for a new song, but with all the bread-and-butter tools I need already in place and ready to go. For example, I have about 7 metering tools in a custom "Metering" rack (preset) that is already sitting in my master channel. I also have a Limiter and a Tool sitting in my master channel. I always use Serato Sample, Scaler, and Atlas in every single project, so those are sitting ready to go on three tracks at the top. Atlas is my primary "drum machine" during early superlooping and arrangement, and I use Scaler and Serato Sample as "fast analysis" tools. If the song will actually use a chord progression, I'll use Scaler to help with that too, since I tend to use a lot of modal interchange and Scaler makes that process very fast.

But the downside is balancing the stuff you always need against the load time of "Loading plugins" for each new project. So you don't want a template that is *too* heavily pre-loaded, or you'll wait (what seems like) forever for a new project to open.

From what you're describing, its more like you're talking about pre-built *projects* that people can deconstruct for learning (or adapting)? If so, I wouldn't call them "templates". I'd call them "projects". And if that's actually what you're describing, my desire is lukewarm, but only because I produce bass music. I definitely acquire bass music projects from here and there to learn/deconstruct. I'm sure there are plenty of new, budding house/techno producers who would appreciate Bitwig projects they can learn from. Currently there are tons of projects for Ableton, and they seem to be popular.
Bitwig | Ableton | Windows 10
baphometrix.com | My YouTube producer tutorials

arrakeen
KVRist
185 posts since 10 Apr, 2002

Re: What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

Post Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:48 am

You mean like F9 Audio does for Live? Probably not, I'd sooner make my own music, but I might be into items made with Bitwig devices - clips and scenes with grouped inst and effects.

User avatar
excuse me please
KVRist
127 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Re: What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

Post Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:27 am

Plenty of templates out there, but I only use Bitwig. These templates often require third party VSTs or VSTis, I assume they contain some presets as well, but I haven't tried one yet. Thanks for reminding me!

xbitz
KVRAF
2286 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

Post Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:35 am

"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

Stamped Records
KVRist
82 posts since 20 Sep, 2018 from UK

Re: What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

Post Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:52 am

The trouble I assume with a lot of templates, is that they will often use third party plugins - popular plugins no doubt, but nonetheless, not everybody has them. If the parts are bounced to audio, it doesn't serve much benefit to those who want to rearrange the notes using the original sound, or perhaps learn something about how the sound was designed - signal flow and processing for example.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but I've also found a lot of these templates to be in a style that is completely out of date, which is fine if it's the arrangement the clients want to learn or perhaps even elements of music itself (melody, drum programming etc.) but is not so healthy for those who want to learn modern production styles and techniques.

Template producers in general don't appear to be of that high a standard, or, they are deliberately reducing their standard for the purposes of producing a template. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard an original sound in a template I've listened to yet.

Hez
KVRian
571 posts since 10 Dec, 2013

Re: What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

Post Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:45 am

I saw AudioTent were looking to freelance hire a 'template'/demo track producer for Bitwig a few months ago, specifying that all tracks should use native devices only. Presumably they feel that there is some appetite out there, or are hoping to corner that market in anticipation of future demand. I thought about applying as it'd be a fun challenge & hopefully inspire deeper usage of the native devices, but was too busy with other work at that point.

Stamped Records
KVRist
82 posts since 20 Sep, 2018 from UK

Re: What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

Post Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:25 am

Hez wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:45 am
I saw AudioTent were looking to freelance hire a 'template'/demo track producer for Bitwig a few months ago, specifying that all tracks should use native devices only. Presumably they feel that there is some appetite out there, or are hoping to corner that market in anticipation of future demand. I thought about applying as it'd be a fun challenge & hopefully inspire deeper usage of the native devices, but was too busy with other work at that point.
Thanks for this mate, you're a legend. :hug:

equinoxide
KVRist
148 posts since 17 Jul, 2015

Re: What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

Post Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:25 am

Hez wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:45 am
I saw AudioTent were looking to freelance hire a 'template'/demo track producer for Bitwig a few months ago, specifying that all tracks should use native devices only. Presumably they feel that there is some appetite out there, or are hoping to corner that market in anticipation of future demand. I thought about applying as it'd be a fun challenge & hopefully inspire deeper usage of the native devices, but was too busy with other work at that point.
Seems like the demand for that position might be higher than the demand for Bitwig templates :D I applied for the same reasons as you and they had already filled the position / removed the listing (perhaps they just didn't like my body of work though :cry: and this was their nice way of telling me so)

Stamped Records
KVRist
82 posts since 20 Sep, 2018 from UK

Re: What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:42 am

After two days, and a number of interests, it's become clear to me that ghost producers must suffer a lot of time wasters, and I suddenly have a lot more respect for them for that.

Get this though. I was asked to recreate some sounds in the ballpark of an old 90s track. I did so, as close as is possible with modern tools and presented the project to the guy (for free) as he said he was a little financially ill right now. I empathise with that.

So anyways, sadly he was running Bitwig 1 and could not open my Bitwig 2.4 project. However, having seen that there were vengeance samples included in the project assets, he responded by telling me I shouldn't do that because he hasn't got the license for vengeance samples. Now, if this person had been able to open the project and not be such a fool, it would have been clear to him that the samples were layered and processed and I was actually being kind in leaving the process visible for future reference.

I don't know what I'm being accused of, fraudulent services perhaps, copyright theft maybe, but damn, you DESIGN a guy a drum kit and you get abuse for showing them how it was done.

It was a nice idea while it lasted but I can't take another idiot like that. The ghost in me is dead,

:lol:
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Yokai
KVRist
320 posts since 7 Nov, 2017

Re: What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:43 am

Stamped Records wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:42 am
After two days, and a number of interests, it's become clear to me that ghost producers must suffer a lot of time wasters, and I suddenly have a lot more respect for them for that.

Get this though. I was asked to recreate some sounds in the ballpark of an old 90s track. I did so, as close as is possible with modern tools and presented the project to the guy (for free) as he said he was a little financially ill right now. I empathise with that.

So anyways, sadly he was running Bitwig 1 and could not open my Bitwig 2.4 project. However, having seen that there were vengeance samples included in the project assets, he responded by telling me I shouldn't do that because he hasn't got the license for vengeance samples. Now, if this person had been able to open the project and not be such a fool, it would have been clear to him that the samples were layered and processed and I was actually being kind in leaving the process visible for future reference.

I don't know what I'm being accused of, fraudulent services perhaps, copyright theft maybe, but damn, you DESIGN a guy a drum kit and you get abuse for showing them how it was done.

It was a nice idea while it lasted but I can't take another idiot like that. The ghost in me is dead,

:lol:
It's just as bad in the custom sync-work and scoring game, although at least most customers there aren't as worried about sample clearance.

Ask for money up front for time spent working on early approval drafts. That way you weed out everyone but the serious customers who understand the time and effort involved. I mean, even well-known and heavily-booked tattoo artists do this. They'll ask for partial payment up front to even book you and draw up the concept art for you. Don't like the art and want to back out? You still paid them for their time.

Regarding the samples used and sample clearance... That can indeed be a thorny issue for really major artists and labels. The entertainment industry has f**ked copyright law and fair use across the world. Honestly you'd have been better served to *not* show the origin of your custom-made samples. They wouldn't have matched any fingerprinting algorithms, so no flags would have been raised. You could have just as easily said "all hand-built with various tools", and no one would ever have been the wiser.
Bitwig | Ableton | Windows 10
baphometrix.com | My YouTube producer tutorials

User avatar
excuse me please
KVRist
127 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Re: What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:17 am

"I'm not even talking to you, you're clearly a fool. Get the f**k out of here."

Written by Stamped Records after I tried to compensate him for a template I can't use. And which contains Vengeance samples and other commercial samples. They did not ask me anything other than: "Shall I try to emulate the sounds of this record?"

I never asked them anything; they just popped up in my inbox with the above question after they asked me what tracks I do like. Never said anything obnoxious to them. They kept on bombarding me with emails and wasted my time.

Stamped Records
KVRist
82 posts since 20 Sep, 2018 from UK

Re: What is the demand like for Bitwig templates?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:41 pm

Maybe you were scared that you'd sleepwalk to the computer, find the project files, use an unlicensed vengeance sample, contact a record label, have it released before you went back to bed, then wake up in the morning to the sound of police sirens? Or, you could just have a bit of sense and not use them.

The magnitude of foolishness here is beyond comprehension.

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