Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

What is the UI you'd consider the best?

Lots of amps, cabinets, stomps... variable routing... just like the real thing...
21
28%
Rack, with one row for amps (simple switching between them...), cabinets, effects...
18
24%
Virtual amp simulator based on parameters, same for cabinets, some effects, and presets that would make it sound similar to the classics...
20
27%
Something else - tell me :)
15
20%
 
Total votes: 74

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
10904 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Post Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:48 am

Hey, I'm currently exploring the existing software solutions for guitarists and I'm sort of surprised that pretty much everything works by showing you pedals, and dozens of amps, dozens of cabinets etc. It's imho really hard to use. I get that it looks fancy and whatnot, but still, one needs to click like crazy to get a little change, so I'm thinking how others feel, so, a little poll hehe :D
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
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jancivil
KVRAF
17915 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:01 am

IKMM's interface works for me, although I can go with an amp by itself and effects as inserts or sends apart from it.
What I don't care to do is have a cabinet with IRs separately from the amp plugin. And IME the things a lot of people promote aren't all that good anyway.

I set up automation, somewhat extensively, in VE Pro and then save template-like things as channel sets or projects so replacing components is all there is past that juncture, which isn't difficult.

acousticglue
KVRian
569 posts since 27 May, 2008

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:17 am

I use IKMM Fenders, Sgear and Kuassa the most. Did love GRig5 as well but no updates to cabs,fx. IKMM leaves much to be desired on updates to FX. To me a company should continually try and update all aspects of programs even if smaller paid updates. I like realism in brands but not completely necessary. In some cases building a Reaper FX Chain is fine. Most devs create better FX than what is built in. Parameters in fx must fairly self explanatory in many cases. Doesn't mean we dont like lots of controls. Most amp/cabs sims have some weak points when adding gain or taking away gain or swapping cabs. I have Bias FX as well and although many items have been getting updates, the pay for that is expensive in my book as first you should have rock solid then paid updates. Nor are the amps involved 'realistic' in terms of controls. And I can still live with that

neverbeeninariot
KVRist
115 posts since 3 Feb, 2015 from UK

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:59 pm

Guitar Rig 5 had the interface nailed imo, real shame NI stopped updating it.

Now I use Kuassa stuff - I find the sims themselves, esp Vermillion and Caliburn to be all I need most of the time, their stomps are pretty good too. Stuff those in the GTR interface, I'd be happy.

escalona
KVRist
300 posts since 16 Jan, 2018 from Portland, OR USA

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:13 pm

Kemper player here, but when I want to record a quick idea I go with SIMPLICITY, so I usually pick Fuse Audio Lab F-59 or BlackRoosterAudio Cypress or even the free ones by Ignite. I can't even list all the ampsims I own (IK, Kuassa, Kazrog, STL, S-Gear, Mercuriall, AudioAssault, NI rig5, the brainworx ones... and I'm sure I'm missing several) and overall I like them all... except Bias. That's the only clear no-no for me.
Overall I rather have quick access (meaning a one or tops two clicks) to a certain sound that's in my head (clean, edge of break-up, overdriven or distorted) when I envision a song... than digging for hours swapping tubes that are not tubes (they're pixels, everyone!!!!)
When I want to record something serious, either Kemper or mic'ing amps.
My 0.02 pesos.

Cooker
KVRian
769 posts since 29 Jul, 2008

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:21 pm

Actually these days "boutique" sim.s are more popular, search; fortin, mercuriall, jst...and it makes sense cause either genre or gear, most look for a specific sound rather then try to be safe by having everything. You can also check the highly successful Boss Katana amps.

Expectation is related to speed. Right after opening the amp plug-in, the preset list for example shouldn't be too long. Experience must be similar to having analog gear (as most own max 3 maybe 4 amps).

But I guess for the developer the downside is they need few but experienced guitar players when creating this concept.

User avatar
MeldaProduction
KVRAF
10904 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:42 am

Interesting feedback, thank you folks!
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
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imrae
KVRian
619 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:12 am

Kuassa have nailed the workflow best for me: one page; each amp plugin gives you a "ballpark" with a few channels/modes that share controls; easy to disable amp or cab section; let me use my DAW to manage effects chains.

Cooker
KVRian
769 posts since 29 Jul, 2008

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:27 am

acousticglue wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:17 am
Most devs create better FX than what is built in.
999999% agreed :tu:

Guitar players have no idea what they're missing in terms of FX. Just because its marketed playing electronic music doesn't mean it won't work on guitar.

Not only fx either, an extreme example but just to add; redoptor2 is one of the best preamps I tried in a while now. But because it doesn't have an ir loader, gate so no one even bothers to demo it :D

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Bombadil
KVRAF
3163 posts since 31 Aug, 2013 from Far From the Twisted Reach of Crazy Sorrow

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:34 am

Scuffham Amps. Simple to use, presets quite well thought out, only 4 amps, I think, but they're all damn good. I use Amplitube less and less, now.
“We're an Anarcho-Syndicalist commune”
Dennis

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jancivil
KVRAF
17915 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:32 am

I used the stomps in Amplitube, I wouldn't use the rack, ain't happening. For FX, and some of these are fairly exotic, I like Guitar Rig.

For an ideal interface I would want more routing output than I know from, but I'm not doing extensive guitar re-amping sound design these days.

Last thing I used an amp sim for was Kuassa Caliburn and I really used the Efektor Wah. It was a virtual guitar and I used Kontakt and host automation for sound design (flanging, tape drive and all this).

IKMM bugs me a lot showing me all of this shit I don't own. I actually preferred my workflow with Amplitube 2 era (Jimi Hendrix mainly) in 32-bit server in VE Pro. There is a big gap in my experience and I have yet to recreate these templates and channel sets I had going then.

sjm
KVRAF
1820 posts since 17 Apr, 2004

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:51 am

I don't like the Guitar Rig paradigm for setting up my own stuff. I much prefer mixing and matching. Need a delay? I'll add a delay. Need a chorus? I'll add a chorus. It doesn't all need to be in one huge box with confusingly named and sorted components. GR is definitely the worst offender for making stuff hard to find. Amplitube turned me off because you see all this stuff you don't own (more clutter). I prefer the Waves GTR UI over the other two because it's so much less cluttered to work with.

But 90% of the time it's simply Kuassa amps, and mixing and matching "pedals" from various sources. The P&M Bundle is a good place to find no-frills bread and butter effects that behave like a classic guitar pedal (1-3 knobs, dial and forget). I'm tempted by the Kuassa pedals too, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

If I had to sum up what I want: immediacy. GR and Amplitube don't give me that, so I don't like them. Just like with real hardware, I wanna plug in and play. I'm not the Edge who needs to spend 2 hours programming a patch first.
Voted KVR's resident drunk Robert Smith impersonator (thanks Frantz!)

https://soundcloud.com/steevm/

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jancivil
KVRAF
17915 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:11 am

The Kuassa Efektor wah is so controllable and 'designed' you have a range from a subtle riding like a Cry Baby to the extremity of Steve Vai wah work.

The immediacy is why I chose that more recently. I can't go back to AT2 because that stuff won't even install today, I have never embraced 4. It's not easier to use. I like the interface of the stomps/amp/cab pages, personally but I'm so turned off their product with a salesman essentially inserted into the process.

CapnLockheed
KVRAF
2223 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Central NY

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:51 am

While I like and use several of the dedicated ampsims mentioned, I often find myself using, (as has also been mentioned) a lot of 3rd party fx plugins not specifically designed for guitar.
So I often build custom racks, an ampsim here, a cab loader there, some fx over here in a standalone VST host like Bidule or Chainer. It would be cool, IMHO, if some developed a standalone VST that was actually tailored for such a thing. I was part of the team that developed ReValver from V1 long before Peavey got involved. It was my idea to add a 3rd party VST loader module.....don't think anyone else has done that yet. It was, I believe, the
first ampsim to have a 3rd party IR loader(also my suggestion).....tho everyone else, (just about), soon followed suit.

Cheers.....CL :oops:
the secrets to old age: Faster horses, Richer Women, Bigger CPU's

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AC222
KVRian
895 posts since 17 Jun, 2012

Re: Poll: Guitar processing/sims, what do you expect from them?

Post Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:59 pm

Hi There! I applaud you asking. Not many that ask guitarists what they actually want. Also want to preface that Melda is my go to for digital eq and compression. The most transparent eq and comp. Doesn't blur the signal or stereo image or make the sound source "hard sounding" with the comp.

For me, I feel like what I expect and still somewhat lacking is for is dynamic response and depth. When playing, most amp sims do not sound as dynamic as a real amp going through a real cab.

Scuffham SGear for example responds more to digging into the string with the pick but it actually doesn't sound all that natural. It's got an unrealistic springy effect. Recabinet seems to have a more natural dynamic response when using their stock cabs. Revalver also seems to sound more dynamic when having its cabs. Supposedly the power amp section interacts with their impulses or cab loader for better dynamics.

As far as depth, most amp sims give out a boxy frequency response in the 400-800 hz range that I have to eq. Some of the older ones such as first generation Line 6 have a really fizzy harsh frequency response between 4-5k that needs to be dialed out.

Basically, I wish we could get more dynamic sounding cab impulses that can interact with the power amps. I know of Revalver, Recabinrt, and Torpedo PI using this approach. There are all highly recommended products and If these can be improved upon in some capacity, I think it would be a major breakthrough for digital guitar/amp/cab sims.

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