Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26802 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:13 am

Topcheese wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:34 am
And nowhere did I claim a Patent is the source code, but I think your last point may have drove it home. I guess it's not the technical specifications, but then it becomes more like trying to release a standard.

Again thanks for taking the time to help me see the err on my side.
No, but because you kept linking to the open sourcing of patents in threads about source code, so my point was to address your conflation between those things. You didnt state patents were source code, you presented something specific to patents as affecting source code.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."

resynthesis
KVRist
397 posts since 17 Sep, 2007 from Planet Thanet

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:33 am

As I said, mine's a partly educated guess based on what MS are saying and what a mate working at MS Research has heard.

Remember also that Windows uses quite a lot of non-MS code. Are MS going to negotiate with all these vendors about source release? It may happen one day but I doubt if it'll be anytime soon.

PS Sorry for the derail, that's me done.

Topcheese
KVRist
203 posts since 12 Nov, 2017

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:33 am

resynthesis wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:33 am

PS Sorry for the derail, that's me done.
Thanks to all of you who were able to look past my ignorance to help me understand. I think I understand it a bit more.

I think it's part of a larger issue, and what you're describing to me is not open-source software. I know smarter people have put much more thought into it, and that may be some of you on here, but not every OS project is created equal.

Even the Wikipedia page on the subject warns you about possible commercial interest trying to skew the facts. I think I understand the point, but I'm just not sure how valid it will be in the near future.

I don't care how hard MS tries to commercialize the term "open-source," the OSI which was around a lot longer than these new commercial "OS" groups begs to differ. Don't take it from me, you can read it here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_ ... e_software

Topcheese
KVRist
203 posts since 12 Nov, 2017

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:24 pm

So the question remains how long NI's going to pussy-foot around? MS just keeps dumping patents AND source code.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft ... mpression/

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26802 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:51 am

Topcheese wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:24 pm
So the question remains how long NI's going to pussy-foot around? MS just keeps dumping patents AND source code.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft ... mpression/
Im pretty sure NI will release all their source code the week after MS do. ESpecially given the unilaterally binding obligation niche software developers have to follow exactly in the foosteps of some multinational chosen at random.
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"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."

Topcheese
KVRist
203 posts since 12 Nov, 2017

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:06 am

whyterabbyt wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:51 am
Topcheese wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:24 pm
So the question remains how long NI's going to pussy-foot around? MS just keeps dumping patents AND source code.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft ... mpression/
Im pretty sure NI will release all their source code the week after MS do. ESpecially given the unilaterally binding obligation niche software developers have to follow exactly in the foosteps of some multinational chosen at random.
<this message was composed in Reaktor Word and delivered to you by Massive Explorer>
I want to leave it alone, but I love how you dissect my words. I like your sense of humor. Thanks!

mystran
KVRAF
5223 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:04 pm

Microsoft for the most part is a platform vendor, so it makes commercial sense for Microsoft so support developers on their platform and they have probably come to the conclusion that discrimination based on the target platform is ultimately detrimental to their own platform. In other words, they almost certainly estimate that open-sourcing certain components has a positive ROI. Even developer goodwill can be a valuable resource when you want them to target your platform. At the same time, you probably won't see Microsoft open-sourcing Windows anytime soon, because Windows is one of the platforms from which they actually extract revenue.

If you want to make a case that NI should open-source something, you really need to show how this is expected to result in positive ROI to NI shareholders. Otherwise you're just living in some sort of a fantasy world.
If you'd like Signaldust to return, please ask Katinka Tuisku to resign.

quikquak
KVRian
509 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:36 am

It would be funny if it turns out that NI actually use JUCE themselves.

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2026 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:46 am

I doubt it, their technolohy is older than JUCE. I know that Cycling74 switched to JUCE with Max 5. Maybe Ableton has done that as well, but that I don‘t know...

Xenakios
KVRian
1191 posts since 9 Sep, 2005 from Oulu, Finland

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:40 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:46 am
Maybe Ableton has done that as well, but that I don‘t know...
No, they started using the Qt framework for some GUI parts in Live at some point.

Topcheese
KVRist
203 posts since 12 Nov, 2017

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:48 pm

There is a lesson to be learned here, and Steve Ballmer who once called "open-source a cancer" can attest to that. He lost his job and got replaced after failing to keep MS on top. Today Microsoft seems to be on top again.
I'm starting to find Juce in all kinds of obscure audio libraries, but that's not the only open-source project that's making waves today. I don't think they need to rush out and make it happen, but it's definitely something that needs to be on the table. That's all I'm trying to say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inN6QAi369s

quikquak
KVRian
509 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:21 am

That reminds of this cringe worthy moment:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhh_GeBPOhs

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17712 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:27 am

But he was right, though. It is about the developers. :D

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discoDSP
KVRAF
4046 posts since 18 Jul, 2002 from Spain, Europe

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:44 pm

quikquak wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:21 am
That reminds of this cringe worthy moment:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhh_GeBPOhs
:lol:

Le't not forget these priceless Steve Ballmer moments in Microsoft history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM61HIqLBeI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U

User avatar
Max M.
KVRist
321 posts since 20 Apr, 2005 from Moscow, Russian Federation

Re: Will Native Instruments release a JUCE framework alternative?

Post Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:16 am

That's why I love KVR forums. We can stop talking BS here no matter what.

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