Best ISP Limiters?

[Recourt]

TDR Limiter6

[plexuss]

TDR Limiter6

This is another good one however it has a learning curve. It's capable of more custimization of vibe but requires more work to get there.

I've been meaning to point out some details of ISP for those that may not know. Meters that have an ISP warning feature are using a standardized algorithm to calculate if an ISP should be flagged. The occurance of ISP's happens in the final DAC and/or upstream data compression. In other words, converting to a different sample rate, or a data compressed format can cause over-shoots. Also, DACs can sometimes throw over-shoots during coversion, dependent on the DAC. It's not possible to predict in all cases, so a standard was created for a meter to warn of ISPs. That's all we can do. The limiter can use various methods including over-sampling to try prevent ISPs. But it's up to the limter operator to ensure the final quality of the audio is as expected.

I came across a CD recently that was riddled with ISP warnings. Sure enough the audio was caked with wide-band intermod distotion - I call it "haze". I was able to get my hands on the 96/24 pre-master and sure enough... the CD had 1/2 the dynamic range and the premaster had no ISP issues. The CD was produced by a prominent producer and mastering house.

I am an amateur.

The band leader agreed, the CD was flawed. Unknown why the CD master was so bad. To my estimation they did not use a true-peak limiter and pushed the loudness to a crazy -10 LUFS. That is what sucked up the dynamic range along with the distortion. After I remastered the 96/24 and convered to CD myself, the band leader was pleased but not happy about the CD.

Paying people doesn't matter anymore in music.

[sleepcircle]

Yeah, I probably should've said. TDR Limiter is GREAT but it's also not just a 'set a target and forget it' system like loudmax is. Limiter6 is more like a toolbox for creating your own limiter with the behaviour you specifically want.

[jbarish]

The band leader agreed, the CD was flawed. Unknown why the CD master was so bad. To my estimation they did not use a true-peak limiter and pushed the loudness to a crazy -10 LUFS. That is what sucked up the dynamic range along with the distortion. After I remastered the 96/24 and convered to CD myself, the band leader was pleased but not happy about the CD.

I'm not sure how crazy -10 LUFS is. It probably is crazy these days if you're mixing for streaming. But there are many well known CD's as well as current releases that are -8 and -9 LUFS. Not saying they wouldn't sound better at -10 or higher LUFS but -7,-8, or -9 LUFS are really crazy. I don't doubt that your master sounded better. You're stuff sounds great even at -14 LUFS. I would be interested in hearing a before and after track tho.

[VitaminD]

This is new territory for me, so forgive me if this isn't related but would this help? https://www.saintpid.se/en/isp-true-peak-limiters-test/

Did you make that blog post? I would like to see that test with Loudmax v1.26, it impreoved the sound and ISP detection since v1.23.

I did not make that blog post. Just found it when trying to figure out what an ISP limiter was after seeing this thread.

[sqigls]

i generally aim at -12 LUFS

i don't give a f**k what the standard of anything is.
it's my personal preference.

[heavymetalmixer]

i generally aim at -12 LUFS

i don't give a f**k what the standard of anything is.
it's my personal preference.

There's no standard, and some mastering engineers recommend to forget about LUFS numbers and set the loudness by ear.

[plexuss]

i generally aim at -12 LUFS

i don't give a f**k what the standard of anything is.
it's my personal preference.

There's no standard, and some mastering engineers recommend to forget about LUFS numbers and set the loudness by ear.

Yes. It depends what your priroties are. It's all trade-offs. You can't have more loudness AND dynamic range, for example. I want the best quality audio with a preference for higher PLR than LUFS but it always turns out, by ear, to be in the -17 to -14 LUFS range for me to get where I want.

[Cooker]

ISP is not important with CD, artifacts caused by too much limiting is a different problem. LUFS has no technical importance, its the headroom to compensate it that matters.

You'll want ISP for avoiding conversion-distortion (wave to mp3, aac...), for stream services like spotify, itunes etc. . Check MFIT paper on apple page or Spotify mastering advice section.

Basically, with a good ISP limiter you'll need less headroom.

[vladimireti]

Invisible Limiter, Elephant, FG-X, Inflator

[Butwug]

i generally aim at -12 LUFS

i don't give a f**k what the standard of anything is.
it's my personal preference.

There's no standard, and some mastering engineers recommend to forget about LUFS numbers and set the loudness by ear.

Yes. It depends what your priroties are. It's all trade-offs. You can't have more loudness AND dynamic range, for example. I want the best quality audio with a preference for higher PLR than LUFS but it always turns out, by ear, to be in the -17 to -14 LUFS range for me to get where I want.

Well there IS a standard for streaming services (-14 for spotify/-16 for itunes.) But that doesnt necessarily mean you should always aim for your song to be that exacf level.

If you like the way your music sounds at, lets say -12LUFS, then your volume will just be turned down, and you keep the same dynamic range. It’ll play as you hear it. On the other end, if your music is at -17LUFS, and peaks hitting near max, the streaming service will add a limiter and bring up volume to their standard. This might cause the song to be altered slightly, as itll change the dynamic range. Might pump in a way you didnt intend, etc...

My music naturally falls to -15ishLUFS with peak hitting 0db before I start polishing up the channels with saturation/compression/etc.... Since Im uploading to both spotify and itunes, amongst other services that use -14LUFS , I aim to bring the loudness up to -14LUFS, with true peaks at -1db, as recommended by Spotify; -2db if louder than -14LUFS. That way non of the music services change the product with their own limiting.

If my music was naturally louder than -14LUFS, I wouldnt concern myself with making it quieter just to hit -14. But if it is quieter, it wouldnt hurt to bring the level up yourself, as the streaming platforms will do it for you anyways.

[BerryLaCroix]

There are standards. And it's good to know about them because they will affect how your mix will come out with your listeners.

EBU (broadcast) will level to -23 LUFS. ATSC will level to -24 LUFS. Spotify, YouTube, iTunes etc will all level your track (no fixed levels but depending on the playback device).

The importance is that if you mix higher than that, you'll be sacrificing dynamic range for your loud mix which is then scaled down when streamed. So you're cramping peak levels where you really didn't have to.

If you mix too low, the streaming service will scale it up and who knows what kind of peak limiter they apply - it may come out crappy if their limiters aren't good.

So if you want control over the quality of your mix at the other end, the loudness of your mix and the peak levels are absolutely essential. That;'s why I'm so happy with Toneboosters Barricade as (ISP) limiter as it has a loudness meter integrated in the limiter.

[Butwug]

There are standards. And it's good to know about them because they will affect how your mix will come out with your listeners.

EBU (broadcast) will level to -23 LUFS. ATSC will level to -24 LUFS. Spotify, YouTube, iTunes etc will all level your track (no fixed levels but depending on the playback device).

The importance is that if you mix higher than that, you'll be sacrificing dynamic range for your loud mix which is then scaled down when streamed. So you're cramping peak levels where you really didn't have to.

If you mix too low, the streaming service will scale it up and who knows what kind of peak limiter they apply - it may come out crappy if their limiters aren't good.

So if you want control over the quality of your mix at the other end, the loudness of your mix and the peak levels are absolutely essential. That;'s why I'm so happy with Toneboosters Barricade as (ISP) limiter as it has a loudness meter integrated in the limiter.

Yup, it’s good to know about them. A mixed that is sausaged to -10LUFS, then turned down to -14LUFS, will not have nearly the same thump, as the dynamic range has been lost. And having the streaming sites bring your mix up louder with an automatic limiter might make your mix a bit different.

Some styles of music are louder by default, compared to more dynamic genres. But if youre making your mix loud just for the sake of making it loud, it’ll actually sound quieter than a more more dynamic mix, once both songs are moved to the standardized LUFS. If your music is turned down, youre missing out on filling up the headroom created by being turned down.

That doesnt mean anything louder than -14LUFS is “wrong” as some music just naturally calls for lower dynamic range. But it doesnt hurt to keep that in mind when mixing. But if it’s quieter than the LUFS the platform uses, it’s not a bad idea to make the mixes louder yourself, to match the loudness they WILL bring them up to. It’s probably not super obvious if they bring up your song a little, but I feel more comfortable doing it myself. Since my music is on Spotify, and itunes, I just go with the spotify target of -14. That way my music isnt changed with their compression.

[Hermetech Mastering]

Elephant or Limitless

[b15fliptop]

Newfangled Audio Elevate is my favorite.