Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

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Stupid American Pig
KVRAF
7052 posts since 25 Nov, 2002 from not sure

Post Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:44 pm

I find the performance on Mac with UAD plugins so bad that I can’t use reason anymore. It bums me out that this is the case. Yes I could just use it the way I used to prior to vst support, and that’s what I usually do. I still feel like even using reason only plugins it isn’t the same lean host it used to be. Does anyone else have experience to the contrary?

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thejonsolo
KVRAF
2119 posts since 13 Apr, 2008 from Charleston, SC

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:51 pm

While I cannot put my finger on it, yes the performance is not what it used to be. Through version 7, Reason was smooth. Sometime after that it started feeling bogged down (even before VST support).

THE INTRANCER
KVRian
918 posts since 30 Dec, 2014

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:11 pm

People have been complaining of poor VST performance in Reason for the past couple of years, but then Reason has been on that sliding slope since they introduced RE's. It's one of the main (if you exclude the pun) reasons I switched DAWs. It just wasn't cutting it any more for my demands I was asking from it and what I want to do in creating 60 to 100+ track projects, and that was from version 7.01.

Dunno what version you are on, but supposedly they improved it, whilst adding a multicore switch, which will either be beneficial or detrimental depending on what VST's you use. Last I heard, was that there wasn't any VST3 support either...but yeah, Reason has become quite behemoth from when it was really just a modest rack and sequencer. Adding a video a monitor to it would probably cause it to fall over imagine.
THE INTRANCER-Digital 2D & 3D GUI / Music Artist - Orchestral Trance - Ambient - Film Scores | Soundcloud 27 | Soundclick 16 | Producing Music For 25+Years & Sound Monitoring FOH at UK Stadium/Festivals for Carl Cox, FatBoy Slim ect

goldenanalog
KVRAF
1851 posts since 7 Dec, 2005 from somewhere between analog and digital

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:41 pm

8)
Last edited by goldenanalog on Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

goldenanalog
KVRAF
1851 posts since 7 Dec, 2005 from somewhere between analog and digital

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:42 pm

:D
Last edited by goldenanalog on Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

goldenanalog
KVRAF
1851 posts since 7 Dec, 2005 from somewhere between analog and digital

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:45 pm

:party:
Last edited by goldenanalog on Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

goldenanalog
KVRAF
1851 posts since 7 Dec, 2005 from somewhere between analog and digital

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:52 pm

8)

PeterP_swe
KVRist
39 posts since 13 Aug, 2017

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:57 am

UAD plugins don't handle small buffer sizes well due to the extra hardware round trip.

The current Reason VST implementation has something like a fixed 64 sample buffer size internally.

Do you see the same issues if you try to run UAD plugins in Cubase or Logic with Core Audio set to 64 sample buffers?

Propellerheads new VST engine optimization should hopefully be released soon and fix the issue.

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telecode
KVRist
414 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:51 am

don't say that man. i am seriously thinking of switching to reason as a DAW. out of curiosity, how many tracks do you have on average in the music you make. is the VST performance issues on only certain vendor's VST or all of them?
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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Psuper
KVRist
139 posts since 3 May, 2018

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:16 am

Reason performance (I'm speaking Ver 9.5. Ver 10 was an insult to the community imo) is still the same overall as long as you don't add VSTs into the racks. We know this primarily because of the work Kategra put in making stress test songfiles and a bit of research looking at verified results. Propellerheads is working on the VST issues with regards to the way they work the buffers.

Even after Reason added VST, I still preferred to use the midiloopback method, as even one instance of my Pianoteq playing inside Reason at 96k or higher was impossible (where I can put damn near as many as I want in Reaper).

VST performance is the least of my concerns for Propellerhead Reason. Even the upcoming hype and fanning won't be effective at bringing Reason back from its spiral down. Propellerhead has to decide yesterday if Reason is going to be a DAW, or a rewired fun-toy.

Reason never lacked in the fun department. I still love designing sounds and playing around in Reason, and have done for 14 years. However I come from a hardware background, and for the most part forgiven its many glaring shortcomings in all the other departments Reason lacks (that my tagline has summed up for a long time).
Reason needs to DAW: Props develop the back-end, SDK, performance, options, GUI (no one else can). RE devs develop the now-expanding playground, we choose the rides. If Props insists on making devices, put them in the RE shop. All problems solved.

mrdoghead
KVRer
10 posts since 26 Jun, 2018

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:36 am

Stupid American Pig wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:44 pm
I find the performance on Mac with UAD plugins so bad that I can’t use reason anymore. It bums me out that this is the case. Yes I could just use it the way I used to prior to vst support, and that’s what I usually do. I still feel like even using reason only plugins it isn’t the same lean host it used to be. Does anyone else have experience to the contrary?
I don't use UAD, but I have had no issues using VST in Reason.

There are issues Props have been working to address, according to them. They just haven't had any effect on my use of VST plugs. Certainly I have had no experience with it remotely like unusability. I mean, I have issues with pretty much everything, but the problems I have with Reason are in proportion to the problems I have with all sorts of software. There are almost always trade-offs, shortcomings, and lapses and we gravitate toward things that work best for us.

With Reason, I would not want to go back to the old days. One hopes they get the VST problems people have soon. Improvements are always welcome.

rewrite history
KVRist
101 posts since 13 Mar, 2019

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:57 am

Something tells me they are working on rewriting the entire core engine. This is an obvious guess from me, that makes the most sense, because of the lack of true integration from the very beginning. Reason was never designed from the ground up for 3rd party integration of any sort. It was a fortified fortress or walled garden. In order to change this paradigm they would need to overhaul the entire base structure of their building. Instead of trying to Frankenstein something together quickly to make a deadline. This may buy them some time, but how long will it really take to rewrite decades of code? That's what you're really waiting on.

reggie1979
KVRist
301 posts since 26 Nov, 2018

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:55 pm

I loath Reasons cpu usage. They did address this a while back and it's better, but it's not great. I recently gave Studio One a whirl and was blown away by how much better the cpu use was vs. Cubase or Reason.

But I don't have a terrible time with it. I just know they choke faster than some other hosts. In fact, many people recommend turning hyperthreading off in Reason. I don't, but I've seen it enough times to know it works for some. On my system, things start choking between the 3rd and 4th bar on the meter. Why it can't go to where the bars go (7, 8? ) is beyond my comprehension. At least with Cubase it waits until it hits the top to sputter.

Studio One is living proof that cpu optimization is a thing, Cubase doesn't get it, and Reason doesn't really either.

chk071
KVRAF
19421 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:06 pm

Cubase has about the same, or a bit less CPU consumption than Studio One here...

reggie1979
KVRist
301 posts since 26 Nov, 2018

Re: Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

Post Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:32 pm

That's weird. When I was using Cubase it was dreadful. Reason, meh, but my latest experience with Studio One was terrific.

Oh well, just stating what I have here. Obvious the mileage varies. Btw, same computer for years so no change there.

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