BitWig vs Cubase Pro 10 (Q1 2019)

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antic604
KVRAF
2192 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:54 am

The choice really depends on how you plan to use them :)

If you like the non-linear workflow of creating multiple patterns and jamming with them to see what sticks, if you like your music dynamic, ever-changing and even random - then Bitwig wins hands down on the account of its clip launcher and native modulation system. If on the other hand you're more of a linear composer, who just copies the ideas in his head to the timeline (or records his instruments & just arranges the audio) then Cubase is probably a better choice, since it was designed as a virtual tape machine, obviously extended over time.
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

jclosed
KVRer
22 posts since 10 Sep, 2015

Re: BitWig vs Cubase Pro 10 (Q1 2019)

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:29 am

To be honest - I use both. Nothing beats Cubase (in my honest opinion) for things like the Control Room, MIDI editing and much more, but at the other hand Bitwig is great for playing with musical structures using clips and modulation (to name a few). Both DAW's have something that the other DAW does not have.

Most times I start an idea in Bitwig, and play around and arrange until it has a good structure. Then I export everything to Cubase and start mixing, fine tuning and finally mastering. It's a good workflow for me.

Downside is of course the yearly costs to keep everything up to date. Cubase is not that expensive (€49 one year and €99 another year), but Bitwig is. However - You can wait with upgrading Bitwig until there is stuff you really want. The price stay's the same, even if you wait two years or more. And buying both DAW's from "scratch" is, of course, very expensive. Personally I did the Elements to Artist to Pro "route" (upgrading every time there is a sale) for Cubase and the 8-Track to full for Bitwig. That's far less expensive, but takes time.

So Anyway. For me it's not Cubase vs Bitwig, but Cubase and Bitwig.

cnt
KVRist
250 posts since 9 Mar, 2001

Re: BitWig vs Cubase Pro 10 (Q1 2019)

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:38 am

For creative work: Bitwig.
For mixing: Cubase 9.5.

And I am saying this while being a Cubase user since late 90's. And you could do mixing in any DAW I guess.
/ C'n'T
Hi People! I'm an addict. Music is my drug.

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MegaPixel
KVRer
17 posts since 11 Apr, 2019 from UK

Re: BitWig vs Cubase Pro 10 (Q1 2019)

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:55 am

I've gone the BitWig & FLStudio route.

BitWig has a poor piano roll editor, ( I sent them some ideas, but if they want me to do a complete UX/UI/GUI job for them they can hire me lol, if you would like to see check out: http://aftc.io/BitWig)

My journey so far with BitWig is one of love and hate, for example:

BitWig - WTF Moment no 1:
It's really hard and frustrating using Bitwigs hidden features or features which are crammed into a mouse over for 2 or 3 pixels which are crucial functions.

BitWig - WTF Moment no 2:
Piano roll editor, no painting of notes, no right click to remove a note, no memory of note size last inserted, vertical selection highlight but no horizontal highlight, resize the highlight zone wtf? Never starting at zero point, oh hang on it does, oh it don't any more... WTF WTF WTF Copy and Paste dont work. WTF Can't simply copy and paste a pattern from 1 track to another track. Which caused me to create 2 videos on how to use BitWig and FLStudio as an instrument via FL Studio VSTI (Multi) plugin.

BitWig - WTF Moment no 3:
Mouse click hold and drag for zoom which is drag left/right or up/down depending on horizontal vs vertical ruler / time ruler your using crazyness it's just insane. It moves, drags, zooms all in 1, sometimes I feel there should be an invert mouse axis option somewhere, but it's absolutely crazy behaviour.

BitWig - WTF Moment no 4:
Ye that asset browser aint as good as you think it is... I favourited a pad and now it's not in the favourites on re-load, was that just for a per a project basis? Cant even find it again even on search. Could use a lot of work imo.


I could go on, but I do love the scenes/clips and the modular plugins, which is why I am using it (mostly), and now that I've worked out FL VSTI (Multi) plugin I can use FL Studio's Piano Roll Editor and export midi and drag and drop that midi into BitWig. It's a major addition to the workflow but works out better in the end, just got to get used to BitWigs shait Piano Roll Editor and the utter insanity of the drag zooming stuff.

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antic604
KVRAF
2192 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: BitWig vs Cubase Pro 10 (Q1 2019)

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:18 am

MegaPixel wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:55 am
BitWig - WTF Moment no 1:
It's really hard and frustrating using Bitwigs hidden features or features which are crammed into a mouse over for 2 or 3 pixels which are crucial functions.
Like which one exactly?
MegaPixel wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:55 am
BitWig - WTF Moment no 2:
Piano roll editor, no painting of notes, no right click to remove a note, no memory of note size last inserted, vertical selection highlight but no horizontal highlight, resize the highlight zone wtf? Never starting at zero point, oh hang on it does, oh it don't any more... WTF WTF WTF Copy and Paste dont work. WTF Can't simply copy and paste a pattern from 1 track to another track. Which caused me to create 2 videos on how to use BitWig and FLStudio as an instrument via FL Studio VSTI (Multi) plugin.
Switch to draw mode to ...draw notes. I think double click deletes them then? It actually does remember the size of last note, if you're NOT in draw mode obviously. Copy & paste also works every time, at least when I'm using Ctrl+D or select an area and Ctrl+drag them to new place.

Frankly, it seems like you're forcing FL workflow, shortcuts & mouse gestures on Bitwig and are surprised they don't work as expected...
MegaPixel wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:55 am
BitWig - WTF Moment no 3:
Mouse click hold and drag for zoom which is drag left/right or up/down depending on horizontal vs vertical ruler / time ruler your using crazyness it's just insane. It moves, drags, zooms all in 1, sometimes I feel there should be an invert mouse axis option somewhere, but it's absolutely crazy behaviour.
Just use the mouse wheel with modifier keys to scroll & zoom, or trackpad gestures - all this works like you'd expect in any application on Windows or OSX. Doing this by dragging the top bar around never made sense to me in Live or Cubase and doesn't in Bitwig, but it's there precisely for users of those DAWs that moved to Bitwig :)
MegaPixel wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:55 am
BitWig - WTF Moment no 4:
Ye that asset browser aint as good as you think it is... I favourited a pad and now it's not in the favourites on re-load, was that just for a per a project basis? Cant even find it again even on search. Could use a lot of work imo.
You did something wrong :)

And I agree - your attitude and patience needs a lot of work :P
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

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MegaPixel
KVRer
17 posts since 11 Apr, 2019 from UK

Re: BitWig vs Cubase Pro 10 (Q1 2019)

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:33 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:18 am
All of that...
If you want me to a full UX/UI/GUI evaluation break down and analysis, then I could, but I wont, that would take days. Time is money and I have other applications to work on (programming and ux/ui is day job).


RE: Frankly, it seems like you're forcing FL workflow.
OFC, I am used to FL, its only natural. A cubase only user would be cubase based, a ableton or octamed/protracker user would be their application of origin based. I expect friction. Just voicing my oppinions for others whom come from FL like me.


RE: WTF 1
There are many, mouse pointer changes almost to a pixel for quite a few things. Many videos showing this and others talking about this on youtube. As for hidden stuff, now where's that quantize menu option? But of course only in the selection right click notes popup.


RE: WTF 2
Forcing FLStudios way on bitwig. Just wishing for something better m8. And yes I am used to FLStudio pattern editor. And right click to remove a note and not having to double click notes is a godsend after having to do it a million times already. There is still much for me to work out and learn however. I'm fighting between what I envision as the perfect piano roll editor, FL Studio and what bit wig gives. I can dream right? :p


RE: WTF 3
Yes, I will have to work out an alternate method for this as that magnifying glass is whoo hoo. Dont try this when drunk you will throw up.


RE: WTF 4
Probably. It's new... Will try and get some organisation to all of that later tonight or over the long easter weekend.


Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying BitWig and FLStudio, both have flaws and both can do things the other can't, but it's going to be painful to move, there will be cursing and bitching (I will keep that BS to myself talking to my computer screen rather than any forums ofc).

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antic604
KVRAF
2192 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: BitWig vs Cubase Pro 10 (Q1 2019)

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:42 am

MegaPixel wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:33 am
Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying BitWig and FLStudio, both have flaws and both can do things the other can't, but it's going to be painful to move, there will be cursing and bitching (I will keep that BS to myself talking to my computer screen rather than any forums ofc).
I've no problem with you being frustrated or confused, because I've had the same with FL when I tried it or actually with most software.

What I have issue with is your attitude, like all those "wtf", "craziness", "insane" as if the devs were somehow retarded and did a program that's purposefully created to f**k your workflow up. No, it's just that Bitwig has its own goals, ideas and ways of doing things that - believe me - turn out to be brilliant once you understand the thinking behind them. Or may not, if those ideas don't align with your own or your habits you're not willing to change.

But sure, it's far from perfect. Like anything in life :)
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

User avatar
MegaPixel
KVRer
17 posts since 11 Apr, 2019 from UK

Re: BitWig vs Cubase Pro 10 (Q1 2019)

Post Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:53 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:42 am
MegaPixel wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:33 am
What I have issue with is your attitude, like all those "wtf", "craziness", "insane" as if the devs were somehow retarded and did a program that's purposefully created to f**k your workflow up.
Well some people may/will have a problem with my wording etc, but that's life, get over it. Also not sure where I called the programmers retarded? Are you the read between the lines and put your own personality in there ... bla bla?

Being a programmer myself, I know what it's like when a client tells you they dont like x, y and z about something and having user feedback on x, y and z and why this and why that lol. Google that quote tread on egg shells and dreams or something...

Time to exit this thread me thinks, attitudes are starting to creep in and its going to go off topic to BS.

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