Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

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Biscotto
KVRist
338 posts since 29 Jun, 2009

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:13 am

MuLab and Fl Studio are an example of what a modular birds eye view is needed in Bitwig.
MuLab is quite a beast at modularity and it flys under the radar most of the time.
I think it’s the only one you can build custom interface for the modular assembly in the DAW domain.
Bitwig.... take a closer look. Single developer as well....
Bitwig.Live/Modulat.Reason.Omnisphere.u-he.Fathom.Arcsyn.TAL

mevla
KVRAF
2682 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:42 pm

Biscotto wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:13 am
MuLab is quite a beast at modularity and it flys under the radar most of the time.
MUX is a great modular synth. Very easy to use and has a wide array of very useful sounds for many context. It is a modular synth that does not necessarily call for sci-fi type of 'lab' sounds and 8-bit bleeps, but can rather be at ease in a salon providing exquisite pads and textures. User interfaces can be made for any new synth that's created. Also has the capability to load any other VST and use them as modules which also means being able to assing macro controls that spans several VST parameters.

It's also quite cheap for what it offers. And runs very well in Bitwig.

MuLab is the DAW that's also offered. The company is called MuTools.
Last edited by mevla on Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Biscotto
KVRist
338 posts since 29 Jun, 2009

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:57 pm

Bitwig is my DAW and I use MUX and I love it!
I hope that the Grid can be used more than just a builder but also as a highest control level of the DAW.
Bitwig.Live/Modulat.Reason.Omnisphere.u-he.Fathom.Arcsyn.TAL

mevla
KVRAF
2682 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:22 pm

It would be nice if the Grid would be able to load any FX VSTs and process them like internal modules, applying all kinds of modulations and variations on their parameters. More flexibility in audio processing than the current modulations (which are also very nice).

x.iso
KVRist
381 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:17 pm

mevla wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:22 pm
It would be nice if the Grid would be able to load any FX VSTs and process them like internal modules, applying all kinds of modulations and variations on their parameters. More flexibility in audio processing than the current modulations (which are also very nice).
it is possible to route signals from Grid to VST and back into Grid.
in first place you can use VST's in Pre FX and Post FX chains within Grid, which means any modulator outs that you create in Grid can be applied to VST's in those chains, so you could just use Grid as some sort of mega-modulator and controller for VST.

and the trick to apply any device or VST to signals within Grid is following: Insert Note FX Selector device in Pre FX chain of the Grid, then leave first layer empty, create second layer that will be used as 'buffer' to place desired devices/VST, there you have to either place DC offset device (for mono signal) or Stereo Split module with DC offset device in each channel of it. inside Grid use 'Modulator out' to output signal from any place in Grid and map modulator to DC offset. For stereo signals use Stereo Split module first, then patch 2 Mod outs for each channel.
After that is done, you can use Audio sidechain module to get processed layer signal back in Grid, just find the path to current Grid device, it's pre fx, then note selector, then POST out of needed layer.
Example attached

EDIT: extra notes:
if you want your devices in those layers to receive Note or Audio signal, you could use regular FX layer device and mute outputs of your processing layers, then use PRE signals from them in Audio sidechain module. If you just need MIDI input for some layers, it's easier to use Note receiver device.
Note Selector FX is useful to block all input as well as outputs to reserve this container for Grid use only with no interference.
Otherwise you might need to block incoming audio first (easiest way to do that is placing empty FX layer device and turning Mix knob to 100%, that blocks any audio that comes behind it.
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Last edited by x.iso on Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

x.iso
KVRist
381 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:25 pm

// accidental double post //

mevla
KVRAF
2682 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:42 am

@x.iso: thanks for the detailed description, as I will keep a reference to your post when the time comes to actually try it out.

Cheers.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
16108 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:16 am

mevla wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:22 pm
It would be nice if the Grid would be able to load any FX VSTs and process them like internal modules, applying all kinds of modulations and variations on their parameters. More flexibility in audio processing than the current modulations (which are also very nice).
See the methods from x.iso

The FX Grid can do voice stacking and voice stacking would not work with VST's. The FX Grid can also use Polyphony in some way, though have not tried to see how that works yet.

x.iso
KVRist
381 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:41 am

I have to add about that trick with signal routing from and back to Grid, there's one problem with this. As soon as you get into polyphony with Grid, you will have to keep in mind that DC Offset device will transfer the sum of active voices to whatever device chain it has in front, and then those devices will process this sum and transfer in same way to each voice, meaning each voice receives sum of all voices processed. this means you can't process such paths in per-voice manner and more voices used - louder the output.
Thus I would also vote for just enabling to host any devices or VST in grid as modules (meaning if it's in polyphony, then all devices/VST get multiple instances). This would also make Grid an advanced patcher.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
16108 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:27 pm

Seems to me the S/H LFO in 'hold' mode is not working correctly. It seems to go back and forth between 2 states in a narrow range and is not random... I'd say its buggy

x.iso
KVRist
381 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:48 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:27 pm
Seems to me the S/H LFO in 'hold' mode is not working correctly. It seems to go back and forth between 2 states in a narrow range and is not random... I'd say its buggy
You mean that when re-trigger is used, it resets to 0 with no feedback or to 2 random states with feedback? yeah, I found that strange too. But, it can have it's uses, if you want Random to start with 0 or something predictable at re-trigger. If that's no good we can just use Random modulator instead. So I haven't reported this as bug for this reason.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
16108 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:50 am

x.iso wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:48 am
pdxindy wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:27 pm
Seems to me the S/H LFO in 'hold' mode is not working correctly. It seems to go back and forth between 2 states in a narrow range and is not random... I'd say its buggy
You mean that when re-trigger is used, it resets to 0 with no feedback or to 2 random states with feedback? yeah, I found that strange too. But, it can have it's uses, if you want Random to start with 0 or something predictable at re-trigger. If that's no good we can just use Random modulator instead. So I haven't reported this as bug for this reason.
It should reset each time to a random value... seems broken to me

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pdxindy
KVRAF
16108 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:03 am

Also, how do you set up Osc Sync in the Grid?

x.iso
KVRist
381 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:51 am

pdxindy wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:50 am
x.iso wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:48 am
pdxindy wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:27 pm
Seems to me the S/H LFO in 'hold' mode is not working correctly. It seems to go back and forth between 2 states in a narrow range and is not random... I'd say its buggy
You mean that when re-trigger is used, it resets to 0 with no feedback or to 2 random states with feedback? yeah, I found that strange too. But, it can have it's uses, if you want Random to start with 0 or something predictable at re-trigger. If that's no good we can just use Random modulator instead. So I haven't reported this as bug for this reason.
It should reset each time to a random value... seems broken to me
I know what you mean, but that would pretty much make this module redundant as it would be too similar to Random modulator, which you can use as well.

OSC Syncing is done by retriggering one OSC with the other. if you want more classic hard-sync, then I recommend using Phasor and setting it up with exact same values/modulations for pitch ratio, detune and offset, as source OSC, and use that for retriggering another OSC. plugging audio out of OSC to retrigger would work, but that means retriggering will happen only at peak points of the wave, so that's not really syncing.

benshurts
KVRer
1 posts since 10 Mar, 2017

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:17 pm

python node or something similar

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