Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

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x.iso
KVRist
343 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Post Fri May 10, 2019 1:06 pm

Seeing how solid the first beta of BWS 3 is, to the point that I don't have any bugs to report so far, maybe it's golden time of opportunity to send improvement suggestions. What's missing for you and what needs improvements.
The point of this thread is to share your ideas and support ones you deem useful here by sending them to developers.

Here's what I've send to devs so far:
Note/MIDI out module needed, it's a huge bummer for custom sequencer prospects.

Recorder module needs a setting for adjusting maximum length independent of Device Phase length. Also a Phase shift input could be useful for record and playback, to slow or speed up the record like a tape. Maybe even add Freeze mode like in Sampler. Or just enable recording in the Sampler module for more complex tasks.

Some kind of Snapshot system would be great, at least for parameter saving and swapping. If it’s too much CPU impact to load parameter snapshots of the whole Grid, then at least make it for selected modules only. Sequenced modules need it the most, to save patterns and recall them, this would be needed to play live with predefined patterns and noodling in the Grid.

People have already come up with 2 methods to achieve feedback looping that is normally forbidden to wire directly (one way is going through Modulator, which I guess looses that 400% oversampling, and the other is by inserting Long Delay with minimum delay time of 0.02ms), so maybe allow feedback wiring with automatic 0.02ms delay module insertion? It could be a dedicated little square module with fixed minimal delay required to allow feedback, that is only generated automatically when trying to patch a feedback loops, no need for this module to be present in I/O separately from Long Delay, it’s just for less clutter.

Pitch quantize module needs the ability to quantize multiple I/O, so it could work kind of like Mixer module, but with each new input added, parallel output is created so the pitches don’t mix, but are treated with same settings.

One other kind of module Grid could benefit from is Container module that acts like a folder for modules, with appropriate clickable/touchable icon to get into it and make modules inside it. Here and only within this kind of module would be Container In and Container Out modules to make I/O pins for the container from the level above, with ability to color and name them (by default it would take color of the incoming wire and the name of the pin its connected to).
This is pretty common in software modular environment to make patches cleaner, but also this can have deeper level of usage: voice stacking. Often you need to copy-paste same group of modules to make some parallel processing, but if it’s possible to group them in Container and then apply voice stack (then voice stack modulators can be applied to differentiate parameters in said Container’s modules) it quickly becomes a very powerful tool to both make Grid clutter free and speed up patching even more.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
15807 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Fri May 10, 2019 1:51 pm

Yeah... Midi Grid is the next big one.

As for other feature requests:

1 - Import a Grid preset into a Grid or another way to save and import Grid parts.

2 - Link Osc's. So suppose I have 3 Saw Osc's and when they are linked, if I edit one, the other 2 receive the same edits. Your Container Module concept would handle this. So +1 on that idea.

3 - Not specifically Grid only, but I would really like timestretching in the Sampler. With the Sampler Module in the Grid, timestretch option would mean the speed doesn't change when modulating the pitch input.

x.iso
KVRist
343 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun May 12, 2019 2:58 am

Few new suggestions:
Gates module and all Sequence related modules need 'Big step' value that would highlight each 'big step' against others (either with saturation, or lightness, maybe just dim non-big steps instead) for more clear visual cues.

new MSEG module, resizeable multiple point envelope graph editor with bipolar switch, oneshot and looped mode (also with adjustable loop region preferably). Needs beat-related grid on the background and snap-to-grid switch. You add the points, bend the curves and get the graph for all kinds of purposes. Already much requested feature

and, I thought I already posted about it, Multi-Out support by Audio Chain out module in I/O, so that we can treat different signals in separate FX chains

odz
KVRist
164 posts since 3 Sep, 2016

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun May 12, 2019 3:36 am

Love all of these suggestions.

Some things I would like to see, which are more cosmetic.

1) Cable display options - Hide cables, color code cables manually.
2) A way to drag cables along user specified nodes to pretty the cable paths up. It quickly gets messy and the only way to move them is to either drag the devices themselves around, or use a small module as a no-op to drag from position A to position B, then position B to position C.

Karbon L. Forms
KVRian
1219 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Inverness, Scotland

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun May 12, 2019 4:24 am

All these are good. But for me the MIDI/MPE/Note Out (and Note FX Grid?) is most important. I'm a MIDI/Note FX guy. I've been manipulating the MPE style inputs (Pressure In etc) and have no way of getting them out, unless I'm missing something. MIDI/"Notes" pass thru grid untouched. I can get a modulator out, but the MIDI CC device seems to only operate on one set MIDI channel. I could modulate a macro param on say Cypher, that's mapped to same shit as pressure, but I'd MUCH rather make my own Note FX devices.
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"Hell is other People" J.P.Sartre
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Karbon L. Forms
KVRian
1219 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Inverness, Scotland

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun May 12, 2019 4:31 am

Oh, and Grids within Grids (SubGrids?). And of course VSTs! I want to do funky shit with multi-out VSTs!! (Like Tracktion Racks without the piff-paff-poof and broken PDC)
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"Hell is other People" J.P.Sartre
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x.iso
KVRist
343 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun May 12, 2019 5:15 am

Karbon L. Forms wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 4:31 am
Oh, and Grids within Grids (SubGrids?). And of course VSTs! I want to do funky shit with multi-out VSTs!! (Like Tracktion Racks without the piff-paff-poof and broken PDC)
I've already suggested Container module, that's basically a sub-patch (a Grid within a Grid).
As for VST's, I don't think we'll see them in Grid as modules in near future, but I guess we should ask anyway. VST's themselves already have multi-outs in Bitwig, there's icon preset if multiple outs are present.

as for Note FX, yeah we should request separate MIDI Grid with some MIDI/MPE specific modules. But I'm guessing they're already working on it.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
15807 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun May 12, 2019 5:39 am

x.iso wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 5:15 am
as for Note FX, yeah we should request separate MIDI Grid with some MIDI/MPE specific modules. But I'm guessing they're already working on it.
Yeah... they said that was coming at some point

I would like a Graph module... similar to Bend, but has movable start and end points. It is needed for easily controlling MPE expression.

wavedigit
KVRist
66 posts since 1 Nov, 2010

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun May 12, 2019 6:36 am

A fuzzy search would be nice for those not wanting to use their mouse / touchpad all too much.
((( ~ )))

x.iso
KVRist
343 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun May 12, 2019 6:55 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 5:39 am
I would like a Graph module... similar to Bend, but has movable start and end points. It is needed for easily controlling MPE expression.
I think MSEG module would cover that as well, if Phase input used with no triggering.

kpv
KVRist
126 posts since 13 Mar, 2018

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun May 12, 2019 6:57 am

End of rise and end of fall triggers for all envelopes.

don_looney
KVRist
154 posts since 18 Oct, 2015 from Germany

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun May 12, 2019 6:58 am

+1 Note/MIDI out module

....and by the way The Grid is awesome. No Bug to report in a 4 hour session. Very very stable.
Sound is incredible
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Karbon L. Forms
KVRian
1219 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Inverness, Scotland

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun May 12, 2019 7:14 am

My deadzone for MPE pressure thingy in other thread now has a kinda endzone where it maxes out earlier than at 1.0 input. So it kinda does "moveable start and end points", but it blows chunks and hurts my brain compared to a "Graph" type doohicky like in Equator. And it's no bloody use as a "module" if I have to recreate it for every Grid-synth I build. Copy/pasting a bunch of modules loses all connections! Or at least it does for me.

Give us this thing:
equator_graph.PNG
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"Hell is other People" J.P.Sartre
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Yokai
KVRian
542 posts since 7 Nov, 2017

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun May 12, 2019 7:22 am

The top two things we need are a MIDI output module and a Container module with appropriate inputs/outputs for grouping other modules inside of to make copy-paste-dupe of entire sub-assemblies easier and more portable across grid devices. I’d recommend that the Container module itself be save-able as a library preset too.

Third on the list is a human-drawable MSEG module (like in LFOTool or Gatekeeper, etc.), which is ALSO available as a first-class regular Modulator (outside of The Grid)

I’d also love to see more filter types and more distortion types.

Lol and I’d also love to see a Pitch Tracking module that is also available as a regular Modulator outside of The Grid.
Bitwig | Ableton | Windows 10
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Karbon L. Forms
KVRian
1219 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Inverness, Scotland

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Sun May 12, 2019 7:35 am

:lol: Despite being a massive fan of those things, I had to look up dafuq MSEG meant. +1
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"Hell is other People" J.P.Sartre
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