The arrogance of Steinberg!

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
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masterhiggins
KVRAF
2022 posts since 31 Dec, 2004 from People's Republic of Minnesota

Post Thu May 16, 2019 1:20 am

whyterabbyt wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:08 am
Fender19 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:56 am
Say WHAT? They expect me to spend $500 on a copy of Cubase so I can test it for them? Apparently they think that beta testing their software and spending hours documenting it is a PRIVILEGE?
.
Yeah, they really should be giving out free full versions to random non-owners who fill in a form saying they'll do some testing, honest guv. Why on earth would they want their testing done by actual customers who have provably made a concrete investment in the product, who are likely to already know their way around it?
Its almost like they think beta testing should be actual testing by real-life users, rather than people looking to score some free swag.
To be fair they also said that they had to own the latest version, not even the previous .5 release. That’s pretty bullshit. Most longterm Cubase users have spent a damn fortune on their nickel and dime update fees.

Topcheese
KVRist
224 posts since 12 Nov, 2017

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Thu May 16, 2019 12:44 pm

Couldn't they just send a developers dongle that a user signs up for? Maybe charge the user for shipping with free return shipping. If the tester doesn't return the dongle then charge them the full fee?
Of course the user would have to supply all of the info up front in order to be a tester?

Fender19
KVRist
253 posts since 30 Aug, 2012

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Thu May 16, 2019 1:56 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:08 am
Yeah, they really should be giving out free full versions to random non-owners who fill in a form saying they'll do some testing, honest guv.
If that's the logic behind it it's poor. They are not giving out free copies to "random" people. They have a limited list of registered beta testers who are doing WORK for them.

And as I said above it could be with a time-limited license. No cost or risk to Steinberg whatsoever.

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vortico
KVRist
263 posts since 19 Jul, 2008

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Fri May 17, 2019 7:56 pm

The OP is completely justified, but I'm 99% sure this is their thought process, which makes them appear a bit less "arrogant" to me.

Users: We want bleeding edge features NOW.
Steinberg: They'll be ready when our in-house testers review it.
Users: No we want it now.
Steinberg: Sorry, just a few more weeks.
Users: Now!
Steinberg: Okay, fine, I spent the weekend making this form and process so you can get it early.
Users: Wait, I don't have a Cubase license.
Steinberg: ...

The "requirements" for beta testers is the sketchy things here though. Normally companies just choose N beta "users", and expect that X% will actually report bugs correctly, rather than requiring X=100% by contact.
VCV Rack open-source virtual modular synthesizer

swatwork
KVRist
317 posts since 12 Jul, 2006

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Sat May 18, 2019 12:18 am

swatwork wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:04 am
Fender19 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:56 am
I switched from Cubase to another DAW a while back and now I'm even more convinced I made the right move.
Probably not the best person to be beta testing Cubase then.
Also, since there are likely to be NDAs involved, blabbing to KVR as soon as you can't get what you want isn't exactly helping your case.

dellboy
KVRian
868 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Sat May 18, 2019 12:37 am

Fender19 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:56 pm


No cost or risk to Steinberg whatsoever.
As the previous poster said, its about NDAs.

And just distributing free software to any person who wants to have a go is not likely to be the safest option for them.

mladi
KVRist
324 posts since 14 Apr, 2016 from Germany

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Sat May 18, 2019 12:47 am

swatwork wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 12:18 am
swatwork wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:04 am
Fender19 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:56 am
I switched from Cubase to another DAW a while back and now I'm even more convinced I made the right move.
Probably not the best person to be beta testing Cubase then.
Also, since there are likely to be NDAs involved, blabbing to KVR as soon as you can't get what you want isn't exactly helping your case.
True. I'm really no big fan of Steinberg but in this case i hardly see any arrogance from their side rather understandable destrictions which make sense to me.
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topaz
KVRAF
4395 posts since 15 Jul, 2001 from Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, U.K

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Sat May 18, 2019 2:16 am

This is plain wrong I'm afraid, there are some great perks to being a steinberg beta tester.

I won't go into details here as those who are established already know. 8)

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topaz
KVRAF
4395 posts since 15 Jul, 2001 from Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, U.K

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Sat May 18, 2019 2:19 am

The arrogance of you wanting free software, basically.
Fender19 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:56 am
I was invited to join the Steinberg development team as a beta tester on recommendation from an associate. Cool, I thought.

I received an email yesterday from Steinberg outlining all of their requirements for beta testers. As expected for such a large program, a lot of time is required for all the documentation, etc. The last requirement on the list was: "we expect that a new beta tester owns and has registered the last official version of the Steinberg product which he or she wants to beta test."

Say WHAT? They expect me to spend $500 on a copy of Cubase so I can test it for them? Apparently they think that beta testing their software and spending hours documenting it is a PRIVILEGE?

They already have paying customers providing feedback that is largely ignored. I guess you have to be a paying "beta tester" to have your comments heard.

Wow. Good luck, Steinberg. I switched from Cubase to another DAW a while back and now I'm even more convinced I made the right move.

Daimonicon
KVRist
312 posts since 30 Aug, 2012 from Sweden

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Sat May 18, 2019 2:36 am

So what do beta testers get? I mean doing it for free without any gain, I know I wouldn't. :help:

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fmr
KVRAF
8689 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Sat May 18, 2019 2:57 am

Daimonicon wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:36 am
So what do beta testers get? I mean doing it for free without any gain, I know I wouldn't. :help:
I believe they get the software they test for free. Which means that, from the moment they engage in betatesting onwards, everything they test will be theirs with a NFR license.

Of course, they have to be existing users. This is true for Steinberg, as it is for any other software vendor, as long as I'm aware.

Which brings me to the point: What's the problem of the OP? If he was/is an existing user, he already has a license. If he isn't, what qualifies him as a potentially good beta tester? Who is being arrogant here?
Last edited by fmr on Sat May 18, 2019 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

kmonkey
KVRAF
4018 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Sat May 18, 2019 3:03 am

OP - buy this book

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Vertion
KVRian
576 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Sun May 19, 2019 5:08 pm

I hear there is a car company that is hiring test drivers as interns to test their latest cars for them, but you are required to buy the 70,000 dollar prototype, sign an NDA, go through a vigorous background check that takes 2 months to go through. Finally, the job pays nothing and they reserve the right to terminate at any time, with a mandate to return the car with a non-refundable policy.

Dream job.

Soundplex
KVRist
208 posts since 22 Sep, 2015

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Sun May 19, 2019 5:49 pm

Funny how many try to chime in and hate without knowing anything about it other than the OPs rant post :D Yes you need to be a Steinberg product owner, so what? User in the beta program get their compensations :wink:

It is also not true that they don't give NFRs to developers. They do (even to certain sound designers), but maybe just not to everyone being 1 month at the market with 1 plugin released asking for it...

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
7949 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: The arrogance of Steinberg!

Post Sun May 19, 2019 6:30 pm

Fender19 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:56 am
They expect me to spend $500 on a copy of Cubase so I can test it for them? Apparently they think that beta testing their software and spending hours documenting it is a PRIVILEGE?
Or maybe, and I'm just putting this out there, maybe they want beta testers who already know how to use all the latest features so they can provide the most useful feedback, not just people looking for a free copy of their software?
Wow. Good luck, Steinberg. I switched from Cubase to another DAW a while back and now I'm even more convinced I made the right move.
So Steinberg were smart in requiring you to own the latest version. I can' imagine you'd have much of value to contribute if you don't even use it any more.
Fender19 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:13 am
How much time do you think it would take to go through every feature and function in such a program? Do you think all that time should be donated to Steinberg for ZERO compensation - no discount version, no NFR version, nothing?
Yes, I do. I have beta tested software for some of the biggest software companies out there, like Autodesk and Microsoft, and I never got anything from it, except access to new features before everyone else. I still paid for my upgrades as betas were always time-limited. I did it because I wanted to do it not because I expected to get anything out of it.
Fender19 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:14 am
I used Cubase for 20 years up until about 6 months ago.
So you'd still have a license, then, so what's the problem?

Sounds to me like Steinberg dodged a bullet here.
NOVAkILL 3.0 : Acer Switch5 (Core i5, 8GB RAM, Win10),Yamaha MG10XU, Cubase Pro 10, DUNE, Hive, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Substance, Seaboard Rise 25, Ultranova, Rocket, Pulse 2, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt.

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