Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

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User avatar
Benedict
KVRAF
2660 posts since 5 Mar, 2004 from Gold Coast Australia

Post Fri May 17, 2019 8:08 pm

Record was pretty darned good. So good in fact they merged it into Reason (which was smarter really as there is no real demand for a MIDI-less DAW).

Balance is a wonderful product (except for the sticky knobs - looking at you too Nektar) but sadly build quality seemed a problem for many. If there had been a Balance II with what they learned, they might have stuck that one (assuming they sold to a broad market).

REs are proving to be very solid so they are not seen in the industry (the real one not angry people in forums who say everyone's poo but theirs stinks) as a bad move at all. REs beat VSTs for integration in almost every way. Not to say I am unhappy to have VSts tho. I even made some again specifically to run in Reason.

iOS I really am not into, as in general, I am not interested in toys. Apps that play farty sounds I can live without.

Alihoopa, well that was just a plain stupid idea but so was MySpace, Facebook and Snapchat and they worked out to be pretty successful. Some you win...

:-)

ictools
KVRist
32 posts since 17 May, 2019

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Fri May 17, 2019 10:54 pm

Benedict wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:08 pm
Record was pretty darned good. So good in fact they merged it into Reason (which was smarter really as there is no real demand for a MIDI-less DAW).

Balance is a wonderful product (except for the sticky knobs - looking at you too Nektar) but sadly build quality seemed a problem for many. If there had been a Balance II with what they learned, they might have stuck that one (assuming they sold to a broad market).

REs are proving to be very solid so they are not seen in the industry (the real one not angry people in forums who say everyone's poo but theirs stinks) as a bad move at all. REs beat VSTs for integration in almost every way. Not to say I am unhappy to have VSts tho. I even made some again specifically to run in Reason.

iOS I really am not into, as in general, I am not interested in toys. Apps that play farty sounds I can live without.

Alihoopa, well that was just a plain stupid idea but so was MySpace, Facebook and Snapchat and they worked out to be pretty successful. Some you win...

:-)
None of these products exist anymore, or the need for them. The question remains, if these new product ideas will be well received in an already saturated market? Unless they have something special hidden behind the curtain, there's just going to be more of the same. I wouldn't put anything they've done recently in the innovative category, and there's a whole lot more competition these days too.

MikeMcKew
KVRist
89 posts since 7 Jan, 2018

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Sat May 18, 2019 3:48 am

ictools wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 10:54 pm
Benedict wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:08 pm
Record was pretty darned good. So good in fact they merged it into Reason (which was smarter really as there is no real demand for a MIDI-less DAW).

Balance is a wonderful product (except for the sticky knobs - looking at you too Nektar) but sadly build quality seemed a problem for many. If there had been a Balance II with what they learned, they might have stuck that one (assuming they sold to a broad market).

REs are proving to be very solid so they are not seen in the industry (the real one not angry people in forums who say everyone's poo but theirs stinks) as a bad move at all. REs beat VSTs for integration in almost every way. Not to say I am unhappy to have VSts tho. I even made some again specifically to run in Reason.

iOS I really am not into, as in general, I am not interested in toys. Apps that play farty sounds I can live without.

Alihoopa, well that was just a plain stupid idea but so was MySpace, Facebook and Snapchat and they worked out to be pretty successful. Some you win...

:-)
None of these products exist anymore, or the need for them. The question remains, if these new product ideas will be well received in an already saturated market? Unless they have something special hidden behind the curtain, there's just going to be more of the same. I wouldn't put anything they've done recently in the innovative category, and there's a whole lot more competition these days too.
A few points...
  1. The RE format is still very much alive and well. Go look at the Propellerhead shop - new stuff is added all the time. To say it "doesn't exist anymore" is just plain wrong. I also still see Reason Compact on the App Store, so I'd say that still exists as well.
  2. What new product ideas? Do you know something about PH's future plans that we don't? By all means, please enlighten us.
  3. In essence you're saying that a company that has had past failures (many, even) cannot be successful in the future. I guess it's time for Google to shut down. The point? Past failures don't necessarily dictate future success.
  4. Mobile musicmaking is really in its infancy. There is competition, but I'd characterize it as many hopefuls vying for the top spot. There is and will be a lot of room in this space. As the above poster said, it's not really something I'm interested in - yet. If they can make something that fits with my workflow, I'm all for it.
But it sounds like you already have your mind made up about your opinion.

User avatar
telecode
KVRian
554 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Sat May 18, 2019 4:17 am

They should kick back at Steinberg with a cross-grade offer of their own now that 10.3 is officially released.
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

Image

hlecram
KVRist
80 posts since 11 Jul, 2016

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Sat May 18, 2019 5:35 am

telecode wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:17 am
They should kick back at Steinberg with a cross-grade offer of their own now that 10.3 is officially released.
They do in some way actually, by offering their „ 100 bucks off discount“ , which you can see every 3 weeks (Bad strategy imo). Yeah I know, not really the same but I’m sure you get the point! :D
If we’re talking about a crossgrade offer in the classical sense, I don’t think they have to try to compete with Steinberg at all, since the target audience is differentiates too much.

User avatar
telecode
KVRian
554 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Sat May 18, 2019 5:48 am

hlecram wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:35 am
telecode wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:17 am
They should kick back at Steinberg with a cross-grade offer of their own now that 10.3 is officially released.
They do in some way actually, by offering their „ 100 bucks off discount“ , which you can see every 3 weeks (Bad strategy imo). Yeah I know, not really the same but I’m sure you get the point! :D
If we’re talking about a crossgrade offer in the classical sense, I don’t think they have to try to compete with Steinberg at all, since the target audience is differentiates too much.
I see. How do you think the target customers of Reason differ from Cubase? They require different workflows?
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

Image

Psuper
KVRist
197 posts since 3 May, 2018

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Sat May 18, 2019 6:01 am

telecode wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:48 am
hlecram wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:35 am
telecode wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:17 am
They should kick back at Steinberg with a cross-grade offer of their own now that 10.3 is officially released.
They do in some way actually, by offering their „ 100 bucks off discount“ , which you can see every 3 weeks (Bad strategy imo). Yeah I know, not really the same but I’m sure you get the point! :D
If we’re talking about a crossgrade offer in the classical sense, I don’t think they have to try to compete with Steinberg at all, since the target audience is differentiates too much.
I see. How do you think the target customers of Reason differ from Cubase? They require different workflows?
Reason is a rack based instrument and effects device playground, then DAW, that instantly appeals to people who grew up with hardware (and was released at a time that hardware was still king by miles, but also too expensive for most hobbyists to afford).

That alone separates it from the pack and defines its target customers who are either familiar with hardware workflow, or want to be. With the resurgence of analog circuitry and popularity boom of rack based software being released, Reason has a ton of competition now and coming up in that regard, but still needs to work on core DAW principles. That's why they need to:

1. Regain the confidence of existing customers.
2. Regain the confidence of RE devs.
3. Regain the market share of DAWS.

And again, I believe they achieve that by my tagline which I've been stating for a very long time, before its too late.
Reason needs to DAW: Props develop the back-end, SDK, performance, options, GUI (no one else can). RE devs develop the now-expanding playground, we choose the rides. If Props insists on making devices, put them in the RE shop. All problems solved.

ictools
KVRist
32 posts since 17 May, 2019

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Sat May 18, 2019 6:21 am

MikeMcKew wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:48 am

A few points...
  1. The RE format is still very much alive and well. Go look at the Propellerhead shop - new stuff is added all the time. To say it "doesn't exist anymore" is just plain wrong. I also still see Reason Compact on the App Store, so I'd say that still exists as well.
  2. What new product ideas? Do you know something about PH's future plans that we don't? By all means, please enlighten us.
  3. In essence you're saying that a company that has had past failures (many, even) cannot be successful in the future. I guess it's time for Google to shut down. The point? Past failures don't necessarily dictate future success.
  4. Mobile musicmaking is really in its infancy. There is competition, but I'd characterize it as many hopefuls vying for the top spot. There is and will be a lot of room in this space. As the above poster said, it's not really something I'm interested in - yet. If they can make something that fits with my workflow, I'm all for it.
But it sounds like you already have your mind made up about your opinion.
1. Why develop more RE's when you can simply develop new VST's and reach a larger audience, just as their news release hints towards.

2. The iOS app market is saturated with everything from toys to remote controls, there's plenty to choose from already.

3. A company who consistently fails has a higher chance of failing again. Unless they have a new approach, invention or discovery, it's going to be more of the same.

4. Mobile music making has tried for the past 5+ years to make a dent in the market. There just isn't enough processor power, memory and storage to be consider anything more then a basic noise generator, an assistant or control device.

Their focus should be getting Reason back to #1 or #2, before diving into a pool full of sharks. The biggest glaring issue they should consider is bringing their outdated devices up to today's standards.

MikeMcKew
KVRist
89 posts since 7 Jan, 2018

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Sat May 18, 2019 6:49 am

ictools wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 6:21 am
MikeMcKew wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:48 am
...
1. Why develop more RE's when you can simply develop new VST's and reach a larger audience, just as their news release hints towards.

2. The iOS app market is saturated with everything from toys to remote controls, there's plenty to choose from already.

3. A company who consistently fails has a higher chance of failing again. Unless they have a new approach, invention or discovery, it's going to be more of the same.

4. Mobile music making has tried for the past 5+ years to make a dent in the market. There just isn't enough processor power, memory and storage to be consider anything more then a basic noise generator, an assistant or control device.

Their focus should be getting Reason back to #1 or #2, before diving into a pool full of sharks. The biggest glaring issue they should consider is bringing their outdated devices up to today's standards.
I don't disagree with most of this. My point is that we really don't know what vision the company truly has. It's also possible for them to pursue multiple things at once. I do think they'll continue to expand the mobile operations, but I've also seen them make great progress on Reason itself in the last year or two. Workflow and performance updates aren't glamorous marketing points, but they're necessary and I think they're finally being addressed one by one.

Psuper
KVRist
197 posts since 3 May, 2018

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Sat May 18, 2019 7:00 am

ictools wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 6:21 am
MikeMcKew wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:48 am

A few points...
  1. The RE format is still very much alive and well. Go look at the Propellerhead shop - new stuff is added all the time. To say it "doesn't exist anymore" is just plain wrong. I also still see Reason Compact on the App Store, so I'd say that still exists as well.
  2. What new product ideas? Do you know something about PH's future plans that we don't? By all means, please enlighten us.
  3. In essence you're saying that a company that has had past failures (many, even) cannot be successful in the future. I guess it's time for Google to shut down. The point? Past failures don't necessarily dictate future success.
  4. Mobile musicmaking is really in its infancy. There is competition, but I'd characterize it as many hopefuls vying for the top spot. There is and will be a lot of room in this space. As the above poster said, it's not really something I'm interested in - yet. If they can make something that fits with my workflow, I'm all for it.
But it sounds like you already have your mind made up about your opinion.
1. Why develop more RE's when you can simply develop new VST's and reach a larger audience, just as their news release hints towards.

2. The iOS app market is saturated with everything from toys to remote controls, there's plenty to choose from already.

3. A company who consistently fails has a higher chance of failing again. Unless they have a new approach, invention or discovery, it's going to be more of the same.

4. Mobile music making has tried for the past 5+ years to make a dent in the market. There just isn't enough processor power, memory and storage to be consider anything more then a basic noise generator, an assistant or control device.

Their focus should be getting Reason back to #1 or #2, before diving into a pool full of sharks. The biggest glaring issue they should consider is bringing their outdated devices up to today's standards.
1. REs should define Reason, and they did, however feel it may be too late for Propellerhead to recover or further capitalize on what once was the pinnacle of their innovation. I'd have to write a small book to explain where I think they are with REs based on past decisions, and how to get where I think they should go, but I don't get paid and my opinion is one in a swath.

2. Mobile is a waste of time. Makes money though, and fun to toy around, but a waste of time overall and won't help anyone who takes their music even somewhat seriously. And considering they focus on only half of that market (apple), its a wash.

3. Sure, but props haven't failed, yet. Signs are pointing to it from my radar view, and I'm hopeful for them, but I'm not emotionally attached to any products - they work for me or they don't.

5. Even if mobile tech was equal to studio power, I have a hard time seeing anyone spending more than a couple hours putzing around with DAW stuff on mobile devices for a slew of reasons, most should be obvious.

6. Their 'outdated' devices perform the same great way they always have, and with a combinator we can do 'mindblown' with just a subtractor and some effects than most could with a suite of synths or tech regardless of familiarity, let alone the endless possibilities with matrix, cv, and other devices including REs. They should focus on my tagline.
Reason needs to DAW: Props develop the back-end, SDK, performance, options, GUI (no one else can). RE devs develop the now-expanding playground, we choose the rides. If Props insists on making devices, put them in the RE shop. All problems solved.

ictools
KVRist
32 posts since 17 May, 2019

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 am

Psuper wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:00 am

1. REs should define Reason, and they did, however feel it may be too late for Propellerhead to recover or further capitalize on what once was the pinnacle of their innovation. I'd have to write a small book to explain where I think they are with REs based on past decisions, and how to get where I think they should go, but I don't get paid and my opinion is one in a swath.

2. Mobile is a waste of time. Makes money though, and fun to toy around, but a waste of time overall and won't help anyone who takes their music even somewhat seriously. And considering they focus on only half of that market (apple), its a wash.

3. Sure, but props haven't failed, yet. Signs are pointing to it from my radar view, and I'm hopeful for them, but I'm not emotionally attached to any products - they work for me or they don't.

5. Even if mobile tech was equal to studio power, I have a hard time seeing anyone spending more than a couple hours putzing around with DAW stuff on mobile devices for a slew of reasons, most should be obvious.

6. Their 'outdated' devices perform the same great way they always have, and with a combinator we can do 'mindblown' with just a subtractor and some effects than most could with a suite of synths or tech regardless of familiarity, let alone the endless possibilities with matrix, cv, and other devices including REs. They should focus on my tagline.
1. RE's are a form of proprietary and exclusivity that no longer has it's usefulness since VST's were introduce within Reason. But, they can still be utilized for their "stock plugins" and the occasional exclusive to Reason only device.

2. Mobile devices have their place, but not for serious music making. There are already plenty of those types of apps readily available. I'm not sure throwing more hats in will result in anything more then a larger catalog.

3. There's always a chance for success, as long as they don't repeat their past mistakes.

5. I'm not sure how much time people want to spend on a tiny screen, unless they're texting.

6. There is much room for improvement for all their devices. Just imagine the appeal it would have to new and old customers seeing Subtractor 2 or their utilities devices with Mid/Side options or even a Mix Knob for parallel processing.

I believe they need to refine and repackage the bones they already have, instead of going out on an expedition for new bones.

Psuper
KVRist
197 posts since 3 May, 2018

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Sat May 18, 2019 7:30 am

ictools wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 am
I believe they need to refine and repackage the bones they already have, instead of going out on an expedition for new bones.
Totally, I just feel the bones to focus on is the points I make below.
Reason needs to DAW: Props develop the back-end, SDK, performance, options, GUI (no one else can). RE devs develop the now-expanding playground, we choose the rides. If Props insists on making devices, put them in the RE shop. All problems solved.

User avatar
EnochLight
KVRian
1230 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from your mom

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Sat May 18, 2019 9:35 am

ictools wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 6:10 pm
You're simply missing the point through rose colored glasses.

1. Record software.
2. Balance audio interface.
3. Rack Extensions.
4. iOS Applications.
5. Allihoopa.

All these have the same thing in common, let's hope #6 isn't heading your way in an already saturated market. Some companies can pull off a wide range of products and some can't. Some times the business plans may look good on paper, but fail where it counts and everything suffers including Reason.
Record lives on in Reason (both products were joined). Rack Extensions have been incredibly successful, making Propellerhead a boatload of money as well as create the infrastructure that allows them to build out to mobile and any other platform (see ELK OS). And judging from Reason Compact, they’re finally on track to support Reason properly via mobile.

By your metric, the only “failures” were Balance, and even Allihoopa (though it was an independent company by the time they closed their doors).

So I’ll ask the obvious: how is Reason “suffering”? (your words)...
ShawnG wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 7:03 pm
take it easy on the new guy, because I’m really sure that he is really a totally new guy and totally not just yet another new account for the same dude that makes new accounts every time he’s banned. Or something
:lol: :lol: :lol:
  • Presonus Studio One 4.5 | too many VSTi's to name
  • Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10.4 | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Tech Panorama P4 | Akai MPC Live | too many RE's to name

ictools
KVRist
32 posts since 17 May, 2019

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Sat May 18, 2019 9:52 am

Psuper wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:30 am
ictools wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 am
I believe they need to refine and repackage the bones they already have, instead of going out on an expedition for new bones.
Totally, I just feel the bones to focus on is the points I make below.
People learn a lot more from criticism then they do by praise.

hlecram
KVRist
80 posts since 11 Jul, 2016

Re: Propellerhead Software Names Niklas Agevik as CEO

Post Sat May 18, 2019 9:57 am

telecode wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:48 am
hlecram wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:35 am
telecode wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:17 am
They should kick back at Steinberg with a cross-grade offer of their own now that 10.3 is officially released.
They do in some way actually, by offering their „ 100 bucks off discount“ , which you can see every 3 weeks (Bad strategy imo). Yeah I know, not really the same but I’m sure you get the point! :D
If we’re talking about a crossgrade offer in the classical sense, I don’t think they have to try to compete with Steinberg at all, since the target audience is differentiates too much.
I see. How do you think the target customers of Reason differ from Cubase? They require different workflows?
Yeah that’s pretty important part of the answer. As already mentioned by some, you can see reason more as a self contained playground which is especially interesting for people who need some guidance to get started. In contrary to Cubase, reason looks immediately more inviting and fun if you are starting out. Cubase on the other has a more „academic“ approach to handling things. If you are new to all this kind of stuff, i can see why someone want to choose reason over Cubase, because this Steinberg behemoth seems so overwhelmingly big and almost scary. To add to this, look at audio editing features alone. in Cubase is so much stuff packed, as a starter (presumably a „typical electronic bedroom musician“ , eg: pc + keys + guitar + mic -> done) doesn’t even come close to using all those things. Well, of course that is a damn general description of workflows and musician stereotypes, but i hope it makes kinda sense when someone read it. :clown:

DISCLAIMER: extremely simplified broken down classification!!!

Reason: creative playground for musicians and those who are starting making music.
Cubase: „just a plain tool“ , a really good one but a tool nonetheless (but things seem to change a tiny bit lately...)

I don’t think that formerly hardware guys appeal as the target audience (might have been that way but we have to look at today’s occurrence). When getting into recording the majority is already getting started with Computers and those having no thing such a workflow yet. like a blank slate they need to get „filled“ and have to develope a workflow.... and reason kicks in. 8)

When it comes to the other points which people here talked about in the meantime.

RE‘s are cool and making kinda sense from a business perspective, it can’t hold a candle compared to vst in the long run though. In that regard they should focus on instruments/fx/Tools which evades the limitations of the vst Standard to augment the Arsenal. What Studio one did with ara might be remotely a comparison, talking just about the strategy.

The mobile marked is too fruitful to be ignored. Not for a possible purchase of the mobile app alone. One should see it as a way to fishing for new users to sell them the flagship product on the computer later. A lot of Young People nowadays getting first in touch with a mobile/android/iOS device before they even think about what’s possible with a computer. Reasons user experience and overall concept is really well suited for that kind of customer fishing!

In the same breath they should try to reimagine their GUI + modernize it. In some aspects you get that feeling that they stapled one new feature on the other, because the marked cried for it at the time.

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