Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Discussion about: tracktion.com
mchoffmann
KVRist
78 posts since 19 May, 2005

Post Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:39 am

Hi,
i´m on W9 with Win10 and have trouble assigning the traditional "/" permanently to "Split at cursor pos".
Default is "Rapid zoom out", whenever i delete that and manually assign "/" to split it works for that session but is lost the next time i fire up W9.

It is one of my oldest favourites from T2, what am i doing wrong? :?:

Cheers from Germany
Marc

User avatar
Stuttaton
KVRist
412 posts since 24 Jan, 2004 from Sweden

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:43 am

It seems to be a problem with non-English keyboards. It doesn't work with my Swedish keyboard either.

User avatar
skipscada
KVRian
1444 posts since 22 Oct, 2004 from Schmocation

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:36 am

I usually change keyboard layout to ENG to be able to use this without reassigning. That's just lazy. To check you problem, I reassigned the command to "-" (which has the same position as "/" on my keyboard). It worked, and kept working after closing and reopening W10. :shrug:

SteffHell
KVRist
36 posts since 6 Dec, 2018

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:30 pm

I have had the same problem for quite a while now (but without understanding what the reason was).
My questions now:

1) Is changing the keyboard layout to another region the only workaround / the best workaround?
I am also using the computer for some other work for which I still need the old layout so I should at least be sure that switching back and forth goes quick and comes without any extra problems.

2) Very important: Is that problem limited to that one symbol "/" or do I have to check (and perhaps reassign) all of my shortcuts?
DAW : Waveform 10.1.5, 64bit | PC : i5 - 4570, 3,2GHz, LGA1150, Quad-Core | RAM : 8 GB (2x4) Kingston 1333 Mhz | OS : Win 10, 64bit

User avatar
skipscada
KVRian
1444 posts since 22 Oct, 2004 from Schmocation

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:13 am

I use alt+shift to cycle through my languages/keyboards. I use it out of habit since I write in several languages using 2 different non-English keyboards every day, and access to special characters is just faster/easier / more reliable for me personally. I don't recommend it for others.

I just checked again and the reassigned command still works as expected, so maybe you're just doing something wrong?

I did this:
Settings > Keyboard Shortcuts > Split selected clip at cursor > Click on assigned symbol, choose "Change this key-mapping" > Press new key combination, check that the new key combination is shown in the same pop-up window and click OK > (Click "Re-assign" as a confirmation)

Remember that you must select the clips before splitting them, i.e. just holding the cursor over them isn't enough.

rlindsey0
KVRist
125 posts since 7 Sep, 2004 from SF Bay Area

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:57 pm

This command seems to work differently on W10 than it ever did before. Previously "/" split a clip at the location of the *play cursor* (the line that marks where you are in the song), not the mouse pointer, provided that the clip was selected first. Now, however, it splits at the mouse pointer, or rather at the line that gets dragged around with the mouse pointer, NOT at the play cursor.

I absolutely hate this, because I have to cut up a lot of clips by hand, and this ruins my workflow. Before, I could position a split location exactly where I wanted with ease; now it's harder, and nearly every split takes longer.

Maybe there's some way of changing this back to how it used to work, but if so, I can't find it. Devs, it would be a great fix to roll it back to how it used to work, or at least provide an option to do so.

EDIT: The Split Clips command button in the dynamic window at the bottom works exactly the way it's supposed to. Perhaps because you have to take the mouse pointer, and thus its trailing line, out of the Edit window entirely to get to that button, and so there's nothing to take the place of the actual play cursor within the Edit window. I'm on Windows 10 64 Pro, W10.2.0.

EDIT 2: Apparently if you select the clip, then set the play cursor position, *and then move the mouse pointer out of the Edit window entirely*, the "/" shortcut does work the way it used to--that is it splits the clip at the location of the play cursor. It seems that if the mouse pointer is in the Edit window anywhere, the Split Clips command mistakes it for the actual cursor. Which is bad.
Win10 Pro 64, Clevo P750DM3, i7-7700, 32GB, nVidia GTX1060, 500GB/500GB/1TB SSD, PreSonus Quantum 2 Thunderbolt, Waveform 10

chico.co.uk
KVRAF
2330 posts since 17 Jun, 2003

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:39 am

If I remember right, this was changed so that people could cut up clips, rearrange and edit them, while the edit was playing. Which was impossible, with the previous arrangement.

So previously you used to click, to position the playhead cursor where you wanted to cut, then hit / to cut the clip - can't you just still do that? I've just had a go, and can't really tell any difference, myself ...
"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"

chico.co.uk
KVRAF
2330 posts since 17 Jun, 2003

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:41 am

Tbh, there's a thin vertical line that shows up where the mouse cursor is. If anything, it's easier to cut the clip without clicking to position the playhead cursor, if you're using one hand on the mouse, and the other to press the / key
"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"

rlindsey0
KVRist
125 posts since 7 Sep, 2004 from SF Bay Area

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:26 am

chico.co.uk wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:39 am
So previously you used to click, to position the playhead cursor where you wanted to cut, then hit / to cut the clip - can't you just still do that? I've just had a go, and can't really tell any difference, myself ...
Yes ... IF I don't move the mouse pointer away from my selection point at all, which for my purposes is an unnecessary hindrance. (OR if I then move the mouse pointer out of the Edit window entirely, so that you can't see the trailing vertical line any more.) A lot of the time, TBH, it wouldn't matter so much if the precise location isn't critical. But sometimes I have to do demanding cuts where even the natural tremor of my wrist could take the split point away from where I want it to be. Because I'm right-handed, I use the same hand for both the mouse and the / key, which is on the right of my keyboard, so I always have to take my hand off the mouse to hit /. Sometimes the very act of taking your hand off the mouse makes it move a little, and in my use case, that's sometimes not acceptable.

In a broad sense, this behavior seems counter to what selection is designed to do. I mean, isn't the point of selecting that something stays selected until you unselect it or do something else to "pull" the selection elsewhere (like clicking at another spot along the clip, or select another clip)? If I select a clip and then click to select a split point, why should that split point ever move unless I make it move by clicking elsewhere? Yet, in effect, it does when I move the mouse pointer away from the split point, because the / shortcut follows the location of the mouse pointer, not my selected location.
Win10 Pro 64, Clevo P750DM3, i7-7700, 32GB, nVidia GTX1060, 500GB/500GB/1TB SSD, PreSonus Quantum 2 Thunderbolt, Waveform 10

rlindsey0
KVRist
125 posts since 7 Sep, 2004 from SF Bay Area

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:29 am

chico.co.uk wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:41 am
If you're using one hand on the mouse, and the other to press the / key
This isn't really comfortable for me. My mouse is on the right, and so is the / key.

If this new cursor behavior helps somebody else's workflow, I have absolutely no problem with that. But it hurts mine, and I'd love to have at least the *option* to switch it back.
Win10 Pro 64, Clevo P750DM3, i7-7700, 32GB, nVidia GTX1060, 500GB/500GB/1TB SSD, PreSonus Quantum 2 Thunderbolt, Waveform 10

chico.co.uk
KVRAF
2330 posts since 17 Jun, 2003

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:39 am

rlindsey0 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:29 am
chico.co.uk wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:41 am
If you're using one hand on the mouse, and the other to press the / key
This isn't really comfortable for me. My mouse is on the right, and so is the / key.
You can map the keyboard shortcuts to any key you want. You'd edit a lot faster if you taught yourself to use your left hand to do the split operation, when the mouse is in the right place, rather than clicking to position the playhead, letting go of the mouse, and reaching over to the keyboard with the same hand.

But if that doesn't suit your workflow, I can see why this is frustrating. Maybe the devs could add a macro with the old behaviour, and you could map that to a keyboard shortcut.
"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"

rlindsey0
KVRist
125 posts since 7 Sep, 2004 from SF Bay Area

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:10 am

chico.co.uk wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:39 am
rlindsey0 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:29 am
chico.co.uk wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:41 am
If you're using one hand on the mouse, and the other to press the / key
This isn't really comfortable for me. My mouse is on the right, and so is the / key.
You can map the keyboard shortcuts to any key you want. You'd edit a lot faster if you taught yourself to use your left hand to do the split operation, when the mouse is in the right place, rather than clicking to position the playhead, letting go of the mouse, and reaching over to the keyboard with the same hand.
Fair point, that would indeed be faster. Maybe I'll try to train myself to do that.

But it still leaves me with the problem that once I've clicked to select the split location, I'd still have to hold the mouse pointer absolutely still until after I've hit /. Often it wouldn't be hard to stay close enough to the desired point, but sometimes even a little drift would be too much. Being 63 with an occasional history of forearm pain related to extended mouse use, it's often difficult for me to keep a mouse exactly at a given location. And at some level I feel I shouldn't have to, given how I've always understood click-selection to work....

But enough whingeing. I've e-mailed the devs, and maybe they'll have something helpful to say. Your idea about a macro is a good one. I wonder, though, whether a setting under Options in the main window might not be cleaner. Something like adding an option for cursor behavior whereby you can specify either W9+ behavior (I think this started in W9, though it may have been W10) or T1-W8 behavior. Or "split follows play cursor" vs "split follows mouse pointer" or something like that.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion.
Win10 Pro 64, Clevo P750DM3, i7-7700, 32GB, nVidia GTX1060, 500GB/500GB/1TB SSD, PreSonus Quantum 2 Thunderbolt, Waveform 10

User avatar
skipscada
KVRian
1444 posts since 22 Oct, 2004 from Schmocation

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:32 pm

I have to admit I'm relearning as well after the edit cursor was introduced. I definitely see the advantages of separate play cursor and edit cursor, but so far the change has slowed me down since I used to move the cursor with the arrows, split and only adjust the clip start/end if necessary. By the way, that's very handy when splitting: apporximate quick splitting can be adjusted quickly and easily on a microlevel afterwards, so there's no need to be very precise when you do the splitting.

rlindsey0
KVRist
125 posts since 7 Sep, 2004 from SF Bay Area

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:43 pm

Having been a loud complainer about this earlier in the year, I'm highly gratified to see that the devs listened and in 10.3.6 added an option in the Settings tab (under General Behaviour) to revert cursor behavior to its earlier form by allowing the option to stop use of the edit cursor in the window. This doesn't in any way hinder those who frequently use the edit cursor from using it exactly the way they did in 10.3.4; it just allows some of us to revert if we wish.

This kind of responsiveness is all too rare in the corporate world. I think that just as we users have the right to complain if we don't like something, we also have a responsibility to take note when efforts are made to address our complaints. So kudos to TSC.
Win10 Pro 64, Clevo P750DM3, i7-7700, 32GB, nVidia GTX1060, 500GB/500GB/1TB SSD, PreSonus Quantum 2 Thunderbolt, Waveform 10

User avatar
skipscada
KVRian
1444 posts since 22 Oct, 2004 from Schmocation

Re: Shortcut "/" for Spliting..

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:02 am

Well, I'm halfway to getting used to the new method, so to find an outlet for my sense of entitlement I'm going to moan about having too many options. :troll:

Seriously, if this had been an option before I would probably never have tried the new way. Now I can see myself toggling between the two options for different tasks.

Return to “Tracktion”