jcjr - Caint Not Do Nothin Right

Share your music, collaborate, and partake in monthly music contests.
JCJR
KVRAF
2668 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Post Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:51 pm

This turd is mebbe polished bout as shiny as its gonna get. :)

http://errnum.com/MP3Files/CaintNotDoNo ... 20kbps.mp3

Back in the 1990s til early 2000s I would often do a MIDI-only arrangement until everything seemed figured out-- Arrangement, tempo, feel, approximate instrumentation, etc. Then begin to replace, one at a time, every MIDI track with real musicians playing real instruments. Except keyboard parts that could stay in MIDI.

It worked fairly well. The arrangement was known in advance to session players via printed chart and midi-to-audio demo. Each musician had "stand-in" midi parts to play along with, of the parts not yet replaced by real musicians when each musician would come over to record his part.

It was labor-intensive on me because I had to baby-sit all those individual overdub sessions then do the final trimming and mixing, which took so much time that I'd be completely sick of the song before completion.

Anyway got too busy programming for a living and mostly quit recording for many years until retirement lately. I had done a MIDI prototype of this here song "Caint Not Do Nothin Right" in 1998 or 2002 or whatever. The alto sax was the only track I recorded for replacement. Randy Burt played the alto sax. Also I tried playing some bass and guitar tracks myself at the time which sucked rather bad, and eventually decided the arrangement wasn't as finished as it should be and couldn't think of any proper fix for the arrangement.

So a few months ago I recovered the old digital performer tracks off a dusty old power mac in the shop, Old digidesign SD2 format audio and a .mid file. Spent inordinate amounts of time beating this into the current shape. Which probably still sucks but it is as good as I can do on the silly thang. After throwing that many hours at something, all traces of objectivity are gone forever. :)

User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
18839 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: jcjr - Caint Not Do Nothin Right

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:16 am

It sounds good, though.

The fact of the live sax and those drums sells it, I don't think normals will wonder about MIDI anyway. Good job.

Skyfall72
KVRist
38 posts since 14 Apr, 2019

Re: jcjr - Caint Not Do Nothin Right

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:44 am

Really miss an arrangements like this, full of harmony, melody and dynamics. So sick of today's limited pallet of musicality.

User avatar
Moe Shinola
KVRian
1489 posts since 11 Nov, 2004 from Kansas City, MO

Re: jcjr - Caint Not Do Nothin Right

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:02 am

Damn that sounds good. 70s TV theme city. Nice bit of nostalgia.
"The Law speaks too softly to be heard amid the din of arms." -- Gaius Marius {Roman consul,soldier}

fastlanephil
KVRian
785 posts since 3 Jan, 2016

Re: jcjr - Caint Not Do Nothin Right

Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:08 pm

I enjoyed your song! It has some pretty interesting arrangements and a nice soulful feel to it.

:tu:

I have an old iMac G5 that I still need to swap out the Logic board on to see if it will work running OS9 and try doing something with the last version of Studio Vision Pro(1998) that’s on a drive some where around here. I found a NCP version of Studio Vision Pro along with Opcode’s OMS on a site years ago. If I don’t destroy the iMac doing the board swap(Difficult) I still probably need to come up with one of the USB interfaces of the time to connect a midi controller.


:

User avatar
Frantz
KVRAF
5103 posts since 18 Jul, 2008 from New York

Re: jcjr - Caint Not Do Nothin Right

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:48 pm

That was good! You put a lot of work into that arrangement.

JCJR
KVRAF
2668 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Re: jcjr - Caint Not Do Nothin Right

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:07 pm

jancivil wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:16 am
It sounds good, though.

The fact of the live sax and those drums sells it, I don't think normals will wonder about MIDI anyway. Good job.
Frantz wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:48 pm
That was good! You put a lot of work into that arrangement.
Thanks for the kind comments.

In the 1970's thru most 1990's I (and some folks I worked with) had "24 track studio envy" wanted to record lots of tracks. If you did happen to have 24 tracks available and only used a handful you were wasting money, right? But those delusions of grandeur tended to be lacking in taste and difficult to mix

So from the late 1990's tried to do stuff that could at least in theory be pulled off with a reasonable-size small combo. Though I wouldn't necessarily have the chops to get all the way thru some of them live. But do-able by decent players anyway. :) Which seemed more tasteful and at least easier to mix.

But got too busy and didn't record much after early 2000's until lately and didn't have much chance to put theory into practice except a few songs.

This song ought to be do-able (and almost certainly better-sounding assuming good players) with an 8 piece live outfit. Drums, Bass, Guitar, Piano/Organ, Alto Sax, Bari Sax, Tbone and Trumpet.

Been listening to some 1960's jazz recordings with drums, bass, piano and three or four horns. No overdubs, just basically live in a studio. Some of those old records sound massive. Three or four horns sound as fat as an entire big band horn section. Don't quite understand what makes a few well-played horns so dern fat.

On this "detailed song prototype" it is real Alto sax (no need to double or try to fatten it up), sampled Bari, two different sampled TBones, two different sampled Trumpets. Each track played "live and loose" to get some ensemble space in there. So the tune has "whole sections" of sampled TBone and Trumpet. But just a lonely four real horns would put it to shame. Dunno why.

I keep thinking am still learning about thinning things out. Record a track then remove most of it later on. Just leave a little bit.

After the intro riser, the first riff is just drums, bass and horns. No chord instrument. I just assumed it needed a piano or guitar in there to outline the chords, trying to play it so sparse it wouldn't get in the way, but duh, that part of the song doesn't need a chord instrument! Similarly the main sax verse is just four piece, drums, bass, piano and sax. All the sections don't have many tracks at any one time.

Am not preaching. Just explaining what I think I learned.

Oh, and the horns seem to sound more realistic with judicious amount and flavor of reverb. Lots better with some reverb, compared to dry.

JCJR
KVRAF
2668 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Re: jcjr - Caint Not Do Nothin Right

Post Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:46 am

Moe Shinola wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:02 am
Damn that sounds good. 70s TV theme city. Nice bit of nostalgia.
Thanks. Didn't think about TV Themes but you are right there were some purt funky ones back then. Your comment got me off on a youtube listening binge of TV theme songs. :)

If I could figger out how to do it justice, would sometime like to try a song "in the style of" Maceo Parker/Fred Wesley, or some Nawlins Meters beats.

JCJR
KVRAF
2668 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Re: jcjr - Caint Not Do Nothin Right

Post Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:51 pm

fastlanephil wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:08 pm
I enjoyed your song! It has some pretty interesting arrangements and a nice soulful feel to it.

:tu:

I have an old iMac G5 that I still need to swap out the Logic board on to see if it will work running OS9 and try doing something with the last version of Studio Vision Pro(1998) that’s on a drive some where around here. I found a NCP version of Studio Vision Pro along with Opcode’s OMS on a site years ago. If I don’t destroy the iMac doing the board swap(Difficult) I still probably need to come up with one of the USB interfaces of the time to connect a midi controller.
I liked OS 8.6 and 9.x better than any OSX. Among other gripes, OSX made all the buttons, menus and window headers enormous, so you needed monitors twice as big just to see the same amount of content on screen, just because they wasted so much space on huge screen decorations. And of course Windows copied that OSX unwise design decision so that the same problem cropped up in later versions of Winders.

But of course they had to do something. Special-purpose well-written software was real stable on pre-OSX but it was real flakey at mundane tasks. Digital Performer and Studio Vision I still recall as my all time favorite most-fun times operating sequencers. Maybe they wouldn't shine if revisited, but I really liked em at the time. DP or Studio Vision would run forever stable as a rock on OS 8.6 or 9. Didn't see many crashes from the likes of Photoshop or QuarkXPress. But in my experience OS 8.6 or 9 got the Mac equivalent of a blue screen after about an hour of mundane internet browsing. :)

I also liked the Motorola 68K Macs best, but a lot of that was for whatever reason 68K was my favorite dialect of assembler language. It was so much fun to do 68K ASM.

Does your iMac have adb ports? The "old style" mouse and keyboard ports? IIRC some of the transitional models had both adb and usb. If it has adb, get an adb MOTU MIDI TIme Piece II. I don't think they made any USB MTPII. I think the first USB models were MTPAV. And some of the early MTPAV were adb rather than USB IIRC.

Anyway the MTPII is built like a tank if you can use adb. Works great. Might or might not have to replace the battery. They should be cheap as chickenfeed on ebay because they are useless as MIDI interface unless you have an adb mac (or a PC with a funky serial card and maybe nowadays you would have to write yer own winders serial driver to get it to work anyway).

I still have my MTPII and it still works good as new except it has been useless as a MIDI Interface for a couple of decades. However even without its MIDI Interface function, it is easy to program on the front panel and is probably a more powerful standalone 8X8 MIDI patchbay/merger/mapper than you can buy new from any current manufacturer including MOTU. I used it many years until recently as an 8X8 front-panel-programmed MIDI patchbay. Recently took it out of the rack when I finally bit the bullet and got a MOTU USB 8X8 Midi Express interface. Which is a nice interface but doesn't have any standalone patchbay features AT ALL. Bummer, but what can you do?

That last PowerMac G5 I had before Intel Macs, did not have adb port but there was some little funky internal circuit board socket for pluggin in ethernet or some other kind of little daughtercard. One of the companies that made Mac accessories, made an adb card that would plug into that mobo socket and expose adb ports out a rear cutout. So I was able to continue using my MTPII as a MIDI Interface so long as I kept using that last PowerMac.

It worked perfect in OS 9. I seem to recall the adb MIDI never working quite right in OS X, because of OSX driver problems. Maybe remembering wrong. About that time I started using a cheap USB MIDISport for OSX Midi testing. If memory is working right.

If you only have USB on your iMac, check with MOTU to make sure, betcha the current production inexpensive MOTU FastLane 2X2 USB interface will work. I got a MOTU FastLane recently for a Win10 laptop and its working great. I was reading the (old) manual they still ship with the Fastlane, and in the Mac setup section, there are still descriptions of OMS and FreeMIDI and such. Maybe FreeMIDI survived into OSX or maybe not, but I doubt if OMS ever worked on OSX. So that might imply that the current USB Fastlane might still work on OS 9 Mac.

Couldn't think up a real amusing picture to go along with the song title for a youtube upload. This is all I could think up, lame as it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ttIAI7wL0

rp314
KVRAF
2414 posts since 25 Mar, 2006 from The city by the bay

Re: jcjr - Caint Not Do Nothin Right

Post Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:11 pm

Plenty done right on this track. :D

:clap:

Return to “Music Cafe”