Wagtunes Production Music

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User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
16702 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:11 am

Playlist As Current

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... c-playlist

**********************************************
TRACK INDEX

Mysterious Places - Page 4
Realm Of Mystery - Page 6
Haunted House - Page 8
Pet Cemetery - Page 10
Lost In The Jungle - Page 10
The Holy Spirit - Page 12
Closer Encounter - Page 13
The Journey - Page 13
Unknown Territory - Page 13
Paradise Lost - Page 13
**********************************************
I finally overcame my paralysis and wrote my first track.

Here was my thought process going into this and actually executing it.

First of all, I cleared my mind of everything. I didn't listen to any music beforehand. I didn't want to be influenced by anything. I also didn't want to allow my safe biases influence what I wrote. IOW, I tried to get away from my norm.

I then opened up my DAW and let my mind wander, trying to hear sounds, textures, whatever, in my head. I then opened up a plugin and looked for something similar to what I was hearing in my head as a foundation. You'll hear it plays through almost the whole track.

I then played it back and went through the process again, thinking what I could build onto it. And I kept doing this for layer after layer.

I didn't concern myself too much with production as far as processing, but I did keep an eye on my SPAN to make sure nothing was terribly out of whack. No harsh frequencies or serious mud.

As I'm going through the process, I asked myself what I could imagine this being played under and named it accordingly. I think the title alone (which I was told by somebody in the business is critical to success) will at least get people to check it out.

Anyway, this is what I ultimately came up with. Please feel free to be completely honest. I personally have no idea how good, bad or indifferent this is as I have no frame of reference and this is my first track. But I will say this. The track is no attempt to be any kind of copy of anyone or any genre. It is totally me and how my brain worked to get here. If you think it's just plain horrible, say so. If you can maybe give an idea why, that would help.

This is very important to me, so please. Be as brutal as you need to be. Hopefully, with each suggestion, I can improve over time. And maybe I won't improve. As somebody said in another thread, maybe I'm never going to be any good at doing this. But at least I'm going to try.

Thank you for listening and your support.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -mysteries
Last edited by wagtunes on Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:15 am, edited 14 times in total.

drumity
KVRian
1113 posts since 28 May, 2007

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:20 am

Why another production thread ?
Isn´t there already one with way too many WASAUCHIMMER ?

(( D ))

User avatar
telecode
KVRian
819 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:36 am

I listened to it. What's your goal with this track? What do you want to do with it? Turn it into a song with vocals? Develop it into some kind of soundtrack theme? When I listen to it, I can't tell where it's going. It doesn't quite have a song structure and seems to have too much effects to be a soundtrack type track.

Just my 2 cents.
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

Image

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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
5997 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:37 am

Think that works quite well. I could well imagine it as background music for one of these documentaries - say, "Did ancient aliens visit the Earth in ancient times?" or some other such nutneckery. :hihi: You get my drift....

Nothing sounded too out of place or too loud etc, and it seemed to be suitably dark and mysterious to me. Good attempt I'd say. Let's see what some of the people with more experience in the field say though.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
16702 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:39 am

telecode wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:36 am
I listened to it. What's your goal with this track? What do you want to do with it? Turn it into a song with vocals? Develop it into some kind of soundtrack theme? When I listen to it, I can't tell where it's going. It doesn't quite have a song structure and seems to have too much effects to be a soundtrack type track.

Just my 2 cents.
I visualized it as an underscore for a documentary on ancient civilizations. It was meant to be as far removed from a song as possible.

So when you say too much FX, you mean the track is too dense? If so, what do you suggest that I remove? What doesn't work for you?

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
16702 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:41 am

donkey tugger wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:37 am
Think that works quite well. I could well imagine it as background music for one of these documentaries - say, "Did ancient aliens visit the Earth in ancient times?" or some other such nutneckery. :hihi: You get my drift....

Nothing sounded too out of place or too loud etc, and it seemed to be suitably dark and mysterious to me. Good attempt I'd say. Let's see what some of the people with more experience in the field say though.
That's what I was going for but Telecode seems to think there's too much going on. Personally, I can't tell as I really have no frame of reference. It may or may not be too dense. No clue.

User avatar
donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
5997 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:45 am

wagtunes wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:41 am
donkey tugger wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:37 am
Think that works quite well. I could well imagine it as background music for one of these documentaries - say, "Did ancient aliens visit the Earth in ancient times?" or some other such nutneckery. :hihi: You get my drift....

Nothing sounded too out of place or too loud etc, and it seemed to be suitably dark and mysterious to me. Good attempt I'd say. Let's see what some of the people with more experience in the field say though.
That's what I was going for but Telecode seems to think there's too much going on. Personally, I can't tell as I really have no frame of reference. It may or may not be too dense. No clue.
Don't a lot of these companies want a few different versions anyhow though - e.g a full more 'busy' version, and then others with less elements? I suppose then you'd compose the 'full' version (as in this case) and do mixes of the others from that.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
16702 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:46 am

donkey tugger wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:45 am
wagtunes wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:41 am
donkey tugger wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:37 am
Think that works quite well. I could well imagine it as background music for one of these documentaries - say, "Did ancient aliens visit the Earth in ancient times?" or some other such nutneckery. :hihi: You get my drift....

Nothing sounded too out of place or too loud etc, and it seemed to be suitably dark and mysterious to me. Good attempt I'd say. Let's see what some of the people with more experience in the field say though.
That's what I was going for but Telecode seems to think there's too much going on. Personally, I can't tell as I really have no frame of reference. It may or may not be too dense. No clue.
Don't a lot of these companies want a few different versions anyhow though - e.g a full more 'busy' version, and then others with less elements? I suppose then you'd compose the 'full' version (as in this case) and do mixes of the others from that.
Sure. I can absolutely strip out some of the more "dressy" FX and just leave the melodic elements as an alternate version.

User avatar
telecode
KVRian
819 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:55 am

wagtunes wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:39 am
telecode wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:36 am
I listened to it. What's your goal with this track? What do you want to do with it? Turn it into a song with vocals? Develop it into some kind of soundtrack theme? When I listen to it, I can't tell where it's going. It doesn't quite have a song structure and seems to have too much effects to be a soundtrack type track.

Just my 2 cents.
I visualized it as an underscore for a documentary on ancient civilizations. It was meant to be as far removed from a song as possible.

So when you say too much FX, you mean the track is too dense? If so, what do you suggest that I remove? What doesn't work for you?
A documentary is going to have a narrative. Your track needs to support that narrative. Your track is going to be very low in the mix for the listener to hear the complexity as they will be focusing on the narrative of the documentary and the narrator of the documentary who will be guiding the viewer in their journey whilst they are experiencing the narrative of the documentary.

Somewhere in there , most probably you will need to leave space in order to be able to add cues that sync with image. For example, if the documentary is about ancient civilizations, and a part about Egypt appears , your score will need.to have space for you to put something in there that has element of middle eastern music so the image is absorbed by the viewer better. If your layer it with synths, you gonna have a hard time finding a place to throw in hand drums e.t.c..

But to answer your post, yes, I think I can see the track working much better as a score to a doc than a bed.track to a song..
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

Image

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
13115 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:57 am

As a track in it's own right it's one of the more interesting things I've heard from you. However, as underscoring it could do with being stripped back. I think what Telecode is alluding to is the spot fx e.g the lashes, riser-type effects. Under-scoring is there to underpin, and you'd be looking to avoid anything that pulls too much focus. Of course, any director wanting to use the music could just ask you to submit an edit with certain things removed.

As to the idea of not listening to anything else. I get not wanting to be influenced, but there's no need to re-invent the wheel. Striking out with your own style might be the only way you are motivated to do it, but there's probably some merit in checking as many of the boxes as will at least get you a foot in the door. Personally, I think it's a good idea to learn from those who have had success. But maybe not.

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Karma_tba
KVRian
1043 posts since 12 Aug, 2004

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:59 am

wagtunes wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:11 am
I finally overcame my paralysis and wrote my first track.

Here was my thought process going into this and actually executing it.

First of all, I cleared my mind of everything. I didn't listen to any music beforehand. I didn't want to be influenced by anything. I also didn't want to allow my safe biases influence what I wrote. IOW, I tried to get away from my norm.

I then opened up my DAW and let my mind wander, trying to hear sounds, textures, whatever, in my head. I then opened up a plugin and looked for something similar to what I was hearing in my head as a foundation. You'll hear it plays through almost the whole track.

I then played it back and went through the process again, thinking what I could build onto it. And I kept doing this for layer after layer.

I didn't concern myself too much with production as far as processing, but I did keep an eye on my SPAN to make sure nothing was terribly out of whack. No harsh frequencies or serious mud.

As I'm going through the process, I asked myself what I could imagine this being played under and named it accordingly. I think the title alone (which I was told by somebody in the business is critical to success) will at least get people to check it out.

Anyway, this is what I ultimately came up with. Please feel free to be completely honest. I personally have no idea how good, bad or indifferent this is as I have no frame of reference and this is my first track. But I will say this. The track is no attempt to be any kind of copy of anyone or any genre. It is totally me and how my brain worked to get here. If you think it's just plain horrible, say so. If you can maybe give an idea why, that would help.

This is very important to me, so please. Be as brutal as you need to be. Hopefully, with each suggestion, I can improve over time. And maybe I won't improve. As somebody said in another thread, maybe I'm never going to be any good at doing this. But at least I'm going to try.

Thank you for listening and your support.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -mysteries
TOOO LOUD!!! TOOO DRAMATIC! Think background...the narration and visuals are the focus NOT the BACKGROUND music. You're trying to be the center of attention...that's not the role of library music. You are trying to be cinematic...if you're want to go that route you should be composing to video and the specific action taking place. Maybe you should spend some time watching public television. Personally I don't think production music is for you. You want to be the star...not be relegated to your name buried in the credits or given no credit at all.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
16702 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:59 am

telecode wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:55 am
wagtunes wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:39 am
telecode wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:36 am
I listened to it. What's your goal with this track? What do you want to do with it? Turn it into a song with vocals? Develop it into some kind of soundtrack theme? When I listen to it, I can't tell where it's going. It doesn't quite have a song structure and seems to have too much effects to be a soundtrack type track.

Just my 2 cents.
I visualized it as an underscore for a documentary on ancient civilizations. It was meant to be as far removed from a song as possible.

So when you say too much FX, you mean the track is too dense? If so, what do you suggest that I remove? What doesn't work for you?
A documentary is going to have a narrative. Your track needs to support that narrative. Your track is going to be very low in the mix for the listener to hear the complexity as they will be focusing on the narrative of the documentary and the narrator of the documentary who will be guiding the viewer in their journey whilst they are experiencing the narrative of the documentary.

Somewhere in there , most probably you will need to leave space in order to be able to add cues that sync with image. For example, if the documentary is about ancient civilizations, and a part about Egypt appears , your score will need.to have space for you to put something in there that has element of middle eastern music so the image is absorbed by the viewer better. If your layer it with synths, you gonna have a hard time finding a place to throw in hand drums e.t.c..

But to answer your post, yes, I think I can see the track working much better as a score to a doc than a bed.track to a song..
What you're talking about, as far as specific cues for a specific documentary, those are custom tracks which are ridiculously expensive. This is for library music. These are tracks that are more "generic" and thus don't cost much.

Now, whether or not my track is generic enough to be usable, that's something the hosting site with all the tracks there will determine and then whether or not they even accept my track.

I'm assuming then that what you're saying is that for a generic track, that needs to work for multiple uses, it's too dense and thus will not be accepted.

Correct?

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
16702 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:01 am

Karma_tba wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:59 am
wagtunes wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:11 am
I finally overcame my paralysis and wrote my first track.

Here was my thought process going into this and actually executing it.

First of all, I cleared my mind of everything. I didn't listen to any music beforehand. I didn't want to be influenced by anything. I also didn't want to allow my safe biases influence what I wrote. IOW, I tried to get away from my norm.

I then opened up my DAW and let my mind wander, trying to hear sounds, textures, whatever, in my head. I then opened up a plugin and looked for something similar to what I was hearing in my head as a foundation. You'll hear it plays through almost the whole track.

I then played it back and went through the process again, thinking what I could build onto it. And I kept doing this for layer after layer.

I didn't concern myself too much with production as far as processing, but I did keep an eye on my SPAN to make sure nothing was terribly out of whack. No harsh frequencies or serious mud.

As I'm going through the process, I asked myself what I could imagine this being played under and named it accordingly. I think the title alone (which I was told by somebody in the business is critical to success) will at least get people to check it out.

Anyway, this is what I ultimately came up with. Please feel free to be completely honest. I personally have no idea how good, bad or indifferent this is as I have no frame of reference and this is my first track. But I will say this. The track is no attempt to be any kind of copy of anyone or any genre. It is totally me and how my brain worked to get here. If you think it's just plain horrible, say so. If you can maybe give an idea why, that would help.

This is very important to me, so please. Be as brutal as you need to be. Hopefully, with each suggestion, I can improve over time. And maybe I won't improve. As somebody said in another thread, maybe I'm never going to be any good at doing this. But at least I'm going to try.

Thank you for listening and your support.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -mysteries
TOOO LOUD!!! TOOO DRAMATIC! Think background...the narration and visuals are the focus NOT the BACKGROUND music. You're trying to be the center of attention...that's not the role of library music. You are trying to be cinematic...if you're want to go that route you should be composing to video and the specific action taking place. Maybe you should spend some time watching public television. Personally I don't think production music is for you. You want to be the star...not be relegated to your name buried in the credits or given no credit at all.
Actually, given some of the careers some of the top library music producers have, in spite of them being unknown, I'd be perfectly happy to be an unknown but get a nice little paycheck once in a while.

But basically what you're saying, in regard to the track, is that there is too much going on and will detract from whatever voiceover is on top of it.

Correct?

Music Bird
KVRist
203 posts since 23 Apr, 2017 from Eastern US

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:02 am

I think this is cool that you’re getting into production music. I hope to hear an extremely wide variety of genres, because with this kind of music, you can do all sorts of genres outside your natural comfort zone, which is good for learning new music genres.
Synth1, PG8X, Dexed, Sound Canvas VA, FB-3x00 series, blooo, scrooo, qyooo, SQ8L, GTG FM4, DSK Asian and Indian DreamZ, and much more VSTs. Casio, Yamaha, Korg, Alesis HW.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
16702 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Wagtunes Production Music

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:04 am

Music Bird wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:02 am
I think this is cool that you’re getting into production music. I hope to hear an extremely wide variety of genres, because with this kind of music, you can do all sorts of genres outside your natural comfort zone, which is good for learning new music genres.
Thanks. Do you have any comments, suggestions, etc., on the track itself?

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