Gettin' squishy...

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mrspiral
KVRer
24 posts since 10 May, 2018

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:54 am

This is a question not only for Roger but for other folks who have been brave enough to mess around with their LinnStruments' inner workings: has anyone had any success with a slightly thicker silicone covering with a lower durometer rating to make it softer?

Way back in 2015 Roger explained in fine detail the reasoning and research that went into his choice of the 40 durometer translucent silicone of 2mm thickness and 1mm compression. His arguments all make perfect sense to my brain and my creative soul, but my fingers are protesting. :) I tend to play very slowly and with lots of subtle finger movement rather than anything rapidfire -- I'm more Gilmour than Vai, I guess. So the reported advantages of a thinner, harder surface are less useful to me.

Has anyone messed with trying to create and install a different type of translucent silicone? I was thinking that even a 3mm sheet of 20 durometer with 2mm compression would be so much easier on my hands... thoughts?
Mike Metlay, PhD (nuclear physics -- no, seriously!) :D
listen to me: Mr. Spiral | join the fam: RadioSpiral | my gig: Atomic Words LLC (coming soon)

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2963 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:18 am

My very first impression after I got my LinnStrument was a bit the same.
But I don‘t want it softer anymore. The physical feedback I get for velocity is so much better with a hard surface. Pressure is also better as with a either a Seaboard or a Continuum. But I needed time to appreciate it...

tiantong
KVRist
76 posts since 9 Sep, 2018

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:23 am

This is the only thing I keep asking to myself too. What if the surface was softer? I haven't tried with another surface, I'm not kind of hacking but I admit I miss a little bit of softness.

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Roger_Linn
KVRian
1280 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
Roger Linn Design

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:26 am

mrspiral wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:54 am
Way back in 2015 Roger explained in fine detail the reasoning and research that went into his choice of the 40 durometer translucent silicone of 2mm thickness and 1mm compression. His arguments all make perfect sense to my brain and my creative soul, but my fingers are protesting. :) I tend to play very slowly and with lots of subtle finger movement rather than anything rapidfire -- I'm more Gilmour than Vai, I guess. So the reported advantages of a thinner, harder surface are less useful to me.

Has anyone messed with trying to create and install a different type of translucent silicone? I was thinking that even a 3mm sheet of 20 durometer with 2mm compression would be so much easier on my hands... thoughts?
By coincidence, I'm experimenting now with softer silicones. One problem so far has been that all silicone keypad vendors are primarily interested in clients who want 50,000 keypads for garage door openers or something similar, and they only want to give a small client like me choices of standard easy-to-make options. And no vendors want to do anything softer than 40 durometer because the soft material tends to tear when removing it from the metal mold.

But I've been working with a prototype company that made me a soft, 10 durometer playing surface prototype using a vacuum (non heat) process with a lower-cost acrylic mold. It was an expensive prototype, but a thicker surface is certainly possible. As I learn more, hopefully there's a way to get something similar produced in bulk at a cost that wouldn't increase LinnStrument's price.

John the Savage
KVRist
306 posts since 28 Mar, 2017

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:27 pm

^And is this because you personally see an advantage to it, Roger, or is it just that people keep asking for it in concept, sight unseen?

Or... Could it be that it's needed for the forthcoming LinnDrum 2.0 (grin)?

Cheers!

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Roger_Linn
KVRian
1280 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
Roger Linn Design

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:06 pm

John the Savage wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:27 pm
^And is this because you personally see an advantage to it, Roger, or is it just that people keep asking for it in concept, sight unseen?

Or... Could it be that it's needed for the forthcoming LinnDrum 2.0 (grin)?
I think there are merits to both softer and harder surfaces, depending on what you're playing. If possible, I'd like to find a solution that's in-between, given the constraints of available silicone materials and fabrication methods, as well as the need for light to shine through, a constraint that the Seaboard and Continuum don't have. And if I am able to offer a softer and thicker solution for the touch surface, I'd use the same softness and thickness for LinnStrument and LinnDrum II.

John the Savage
KVRist
306 posts since 28 Mar, 2017

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:32 pm

Interesting... Well, keep us posted.

For the record though, I'm getting along just fine with the most recent formulation on the LinnStrument. But then, we're all new to this; so, I guess there's no saying, one way or the other, whether or not it's the best that it could be. That said, I don't think I'd like the feel of the LinnStrument's playing surface as much, if it were to serve as the pads of a drum machine. I think thicker and softer would definitely be the way to go there...

Regardless, improvements are always welcome. In you we trust (grin).

Cheers!

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Roger_Linn
KVRian
1280 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
Roger Linn Design

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:40 pm

Thanks, John. I should know more in the next month or two.

tiantong
KVRist
76 posts since 9 Sep, 2018

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:51 pm

Say a new silicon surface is available at some point. Is it something we could change ourselves?

John the Savage
KVRist
306 posts since 28 Mar, 2017

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:48 pm

tiantong wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:51 pm
Say a new silicon surface is available at some point. Is it something we could change ourselves?
Yes. I've swapped playing surfaces several times now, and I've changed the sensor too. If you can work a screwdriver, you can change the playing surface. It's that easy. By design, the LinnStrument is very user-serviceable.

Cheers!

tiantong
KVRist
76 posts since 9 Sep, 2018

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:59 pm

👍 nice

spunkytoofers
KVRist
33 posts since 19 Mar, 2015

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:09 am

John the Savage wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:27 pm
^And is this because you personally see an advantage to it, Roger, or is it just that people keep asking for it in concept, sight unseen?

Or... Could it be that it's needed for the forthcoming LinnDrum 2.0 (grin)?

Cheers!
I recently changed my mat, it was getting squishy and gummy. The first thing I noticed was fingers were sliding as if I got on a lake of ice. It takes getting used to the new mats Roger started supplying. The biggest advantage of this slick surface were articulations and velocity started to get more responsive. I do like using more pressure to have a wider feel for expression and the new surface seemed to require less pressure.

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Roger_Linn
KVRian
1280 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
Roger Linn Design

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:35 am

John the Savage wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:48 pm
tiantong wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:51 pm
Say a new silicon surface is available at some point. Is it something we could change ourselves?
Yes. I've swapped playing surfaces several times now, and I've changed the sensor too. If you can work a screwdriver, you can change the playing surface. It's that easy. By design, the LinnStrument is very user-serviceable.

Cheers!
John is correct. I designed LinnStrument so that everything can be replaced by the owner following an installation video.

mrspiral
KVRer
24 posts since 10 May, 2018

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:46 am

Wow, this is fantastic all around! It's so cool to hear that you're revisiting the idea, Roger, and I can't wait to see what you come up with. I'll happily sign up to alpha or beta test one of these new softer surfaces!
Mike Metlay, PhD (nuclear physics -- no, seriously!) :D
listen to me: Mr. Spiral | join the fam: RadioSpiral | my gig: Atomic Words LLC (coming soon)

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Roger_Linn
KVRian
1280 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
Roger Linn Design

Re: Gettin' squishy...

Post Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:53 am

It's important to note that I may come up with nothing. So far I have a soft prototype and after 5 years, no vendor that is willing to make anything with softer material. My post was merely to state that I had a non-production prototype made of a softer material and hopes that it could possibly be part of future production.

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