Any love for ANA2?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7507 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:47 pm

tehlord wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:04 pm
For example, this was purely sample based oscillators with some vowel filtering and bitcrushing. I'm modulating the sample start time here to create the time stretch effect, not something you can do with a regular oscillator.

https://soundcloud.com/bluffmunkey/soni ... ss-madness
:tu:
I haven't really been using the sample osc much as I feel like they really need to change the way the parameters behave. It's been brought up before but moving one parameter should not change another one.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1. Bitwig 3.0, Steinberg UR44.

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tehlord
KVRAF
7907 posts since 22 Sep, 2008 from Windsor. UK

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:44 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:47 pm

I haven't really been using the sample osc much as I feel like they really need to change the way the parameters behave. It's been brought up before but moving one parameter should not change another one.
Not sure what you mean?

recursive one
KVRAF
4369 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:58 am

tehlord wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:04 pm
For example, this was purely sample based oscillators with some vowel filtering and bitcrushing. I'm modulating the sample start time here to create the time stretch effect, not something you can do with a regular oscillator.

https://soundcloud.com/bluffmunkey/soni ... ss-madness
Yeah, sounds cool :)

I wonder can ANA2 do some of these "ripping" FM leads often used in on older psy/goa tracks. E.g. in Virus you can FM an osc with another osc 1 or 2 octaves lower in "pos triangle" mode and sync the oscs at the same time. Actually the only sofwtare synth that does it well enough to my ears is Tal Mod.

This sort of lead (4:00 onwards)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYOQUwIglDk
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

anoise
KVRist
245 posts since 1 Jul, 2009

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:17 am

recursive one wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:58 am
Actually the only sofwtare synth that does it well enough to my ears is Tal Mod.
What about Viper?

recursive one
KVRAF
4369 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:23 am

anoise wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:17 am
recursive one wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:58 am
Actually the only sofwtare synth that does it well enough to my ears is Tal Mod.
What about Viper?
Yes, Viper does that too (slightly different character than actual Virus, but still good).

I think ARP Nano in bank3 was the preset. Of ARP Psytrance FM in bank 2.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

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tehlord
KVRAF
7907 posts since 22 Sep, 2008 from Windsor. UK

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:52 am

ANA2 has the features the Virus has, but the implementation is probably different. The FM sound in that video is very similar in concept to the Darude Sandstorm lead, and I'm not able to nail it 100% in ANA2 right now, although I suspect (from doing sounds like this before) that the sweet spot of FM amount vs precise carrier/modular settings is quite, quite, quite small.

The Virus on the other hands, literally shits out sounds like that all day long

recursive one
KVRAF
4369 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:38 am

I see. Yes, it's very easy to make such sounds in Virus but for some reason most softsynths doing 2osc FM struggle at that.

Good thing about virus is that you can modulate the FM amount in wide range and it will still sound good.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

bite_me
KVRist
409 posts since 2 May, 2015 from Ruhrgebiet

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:42 pm

Hi.
While I like Ana2, I´m annoyed by some "Amp envelope release clicks".
The env type which is the most ok is analog.
I first noticed them through some headphone sessions.
Just my wooden ears or does someone else can confirm?
The average bored guy :neutral:

Trancit
KVRAF
2448 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:51 am

recursive one wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:38 am
I see. Yes, it's very easy to make such sounds in Virus but for some reason most softsynths doing 2osc FM struggle at that.
Really??...
To my taste what I ve seen in the vid is the most boring Psy FM lead I´ve ever heard while it´s so easy to make really gritty FM leads in i.e. Serum or a very good example is Abletons Operator...

recursive one
KVRAF
4369 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:00 am

Trancit wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:51 am
recursive one wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:38 am
I see. Yes, it's very easy to make such sounds in Virus but for some reason most softsynths doing 2osc FM struggle at that.
Really??...
To my taste what I ve seen in the vid is the most boring Psy FM lead I´ve ever heard while it´s so easy to make really gritty FM leads in i.e. Serum or a very good example is Abletons Operator...
Idk, I just love the Virus FM sound... As I said, it's possible to modulate the FM amount to make it less boring :)

I know how to make FM leads in Serum but it's always very fiddly - choosing the right wavetable, the right FM amount, in Virus you just turn the FM knob and it sounds cool right away :party: Also in Serum you can't sync and FM at the same time like you do in Virus.

Tal Mod and Viper can do that though.

Not familiar with Operator.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

Trancit
KVRAF
2448 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:49 am

recursive one wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:00 am
Idk, I just love the Virus FM sound... As I said, it's possible to modulate the FM amount to make it less boring :)
I didn´t mean to modulate it... I never had a Virus so I cannot tell about it ...perhaps it´s just the taste/skills of the vid maker but this sound needs to be much more gritty/nasty...much harder sounding in general... not some lame FM bubbling...
Second: this sound needs a pingpong delay... I don´t know if Virus offers one... and these sounds typically are drained in Delay... so instead of turning down the feedback it has to be raised as well as the wet amount...
I know how to make FM leads in Serum but it's always very fiddly - choosing the right wavetable, the right FM amount, in Virus you just turn the FM knob and it sounds cool right away :party: Also in Serum you can't sync and FM at the same time like you do in Virus.

Tal Mod and Viper can do that though.

Not familiar with Operator.
What does the sync in this case do in the Virus???

I find FM a breathe in Serum... knowing the right wavetables is done after a few tries and having the Osc warp modes on the Modulator too (e.g. sync) can make the sound even more gritty with just a simple sine...
If I had to guess I would say that Serum is the most used synth for FM leads in Psytrance for the last 4 years... most tutorials you see are Serum based...

The special thing about Operator is that a saw as a carrier with a sine as a modulator creates in lower modulation settings a such powerful mixture between Saw and FM which I never have been able to recreate with any other synth... Operator seems to have something different there... and this something sounds very very powerful on this types of sounds

recursive one
KVRAF
4369 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:59 am

Trancit wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:49 am
recursive one wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:00 am
Idk, I just love the Virus FM sound... As I said, it's possible to modulate the FM amount to make it less boring :)
I didn´t mean to modulate it... I never had a Virus so I cannot tell about it ...perhaps it´s just the taste/skills of the vid maker but this sound needs to be much more gritty/nasty...much harder sounding in general... not some lame FM bubbling...
Second: this sound needs a pingpong delay... I don´t know if Virus offers one... and these sounds typically are drained in Delay... so instead of turning down the feedback it has to be raised as well as the wet amount...
I know how to make FM leads in Serum but it's always very fiddly - choosing the right wavetable, the right FM amount, in Virus you just turn the FM knob and it sounds cool right away :party: Also in Serum you can't sync and FM at the same time like you do in Virus.

Tal Mod and Viper can do that though.

Not familiar with Operator.
What does the sync in this case do in the Virus???

I find FM a breathe in Serum... knowing the right wavetables is done after a few tries and having the Osc warp modes on the Modulator too (e.g. sync) can make the sound even more gritty with just a simple sine...
If I had to guess I would say that Serum is the most used synth for FM leads in Psytrance for the last 4 years... most tutorials you see are Serum based...

The special thing about Operator is that a saw as a carrier with a sine as a modulator creates in lower modulation settings a such powerful mixture between Saw and FM which I never have been able to recreate with any other synth... Operator seems to have something different there... and this something sounds very very powerful on this types of sounds
Ofc Virus has a pingpong delay (i typically use external delays though).

Sync in Virus does the same as sync in other synths i think. You can sync osc2 to osc 1 and FM osc2 from osc 1 at the same time. Sync makes this sound harder and more consistent. Then you can add grit/texture by rate reducer (pre or post filter) and link FM amount e.g. to velocity to make the sound more "alive". The above video shows the basic sound which you can make more interesting in multiple ways. You can also admix the carrier modulator (osc1 ) if you want.

I know most people are now using Serum for that but I think that's because it's software and not because i sounds better. I do use Serum for psy FM leads myself to but in my experience the FM amount in Serum has quite narrow sweet spot, it quickly goes too dirty/noisy/plastic.
Last edited by recursive one on Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

Trancit
KVRAF
2448 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:35 am

recursive one wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:59 am
Sync in Virus does the same as sync in other synths i think. You can sync osc2 to osc 1 and FM osc2 from osc 1 at the same time. Sync makes this sound harder and more consistent. Then you can add grit/texture by rate reducer (pre or post filter) and link FM amount e.g. to velocity to make the sound more "alive". The above video shows the basic sound which you can make more interesting in multiple ways. You can also admix the carrier (osc1) if you want.
Ok, the Virus seem to be quite capable as well so it´s more what the vid maker did what I don´t like... 8)
I know most people are now using Serum for that but I think that's because it's software and not because i sounds better. I do use Serum for psy FM leads myself to but in my experience the FM amount in Serum has quite narrow sweet spot, it quickly goes too dirty/noisy/plastic.
I mostly use settings inbetween 50-75% and this range is quite useable... I didn´t found other synths with a better sweetspot range though except those which range was too limited to go wild like i.e. Rapid...
With Serum I always found exactly what I was looking for...

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7507 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:38 am

tehlord wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:44 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:47 pm

I haven't really been using the sample osc much as I feel like they really need to change the way the parameters behave. It's been brought up before but moving one parameter should not change another one.
Not sure what you mean?
Often when you adjust one parameter in the sample section, it moves another knob. This should never be the case, especially for automatable parameters. It's been discussed plenty in the other ANA thread.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1. Bitwig 3.0, Steinberg UR44.

recursive one
KVRAF
4369 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Any love for ANA2?

Post Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:41 am

Yes, Rapid has pretty tame sounding FM (which is not even FM as far as I know, rather PM).

Though you may get somewhat edgier sounds if you use it on a wavetable which already has some FM embedded.

WIP mix, unfinished, unmastered (and not sure if ever will be), just an example of FM sounds from Virus which I personally like (at 3:00)

https://vocaroo.com/1fUS1BNPRMm
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

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