Catalina and plugins

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
acid alex
KVRist
199 posts since 23 Feb, 2017

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:30 am

I’m going to hold back updating for a while until my DAW supports it but I’m curious whether plugin developers will also need to update?

Will Catalina break my previously installed plugins until they’re updated/signed?

Should I hold off purchasing new plugins unless they state they are compatible?

What about all the old freeware plugins that haven’t been updated for years, will we no longer be able to install/use them?

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4916 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:34 am

Whatever it is, if it's got 32bit code in it, Catalina will break it. Older freeware stuff is likely DoA.

If plugins are supported, they will probably get updated to support it eventually. But unless you have a burning need to run Catalina, it's going to be best to stick with Mojave until the dust has settled. Looking at the number of developers who are issuing warnings, not just music apps and plugins, I'd say Apple has screwed the pooch on this update. For some bizarre reason they kept the developers in the dark on changes up to the last minute in an update known to break compatibility with a lot of old stuff.

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plexuss
KVRAF
3364 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:37 am

As with every macOS "update" your plugins will break. I have been getting emails from plugin devs warning not to update to 10.15. I didn't plan to anyway. In fact, I am learning Reaper so I can move away from Logic and then ultimately off macOS. I'm tired of Apple's crappy Core Audio and constantly breaking the OS. Apple is simply not worth the money or the time anymore... (this from a Apple customer since 1981. I'm done!) :dog:

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Forgotten
KVRAF
4167 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:39 am

Gamma-UT wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:34 am
For some bizarre reason they kept the developers in the dark on changes up to the last minute in an update known to break compatibility with a lot of old stuff.
They announced it explicitly in June of 2018, and long before that implied that Mojave would be the last version of MacOS to support 32-but code. Not exactly “last minute”.

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4916 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:42 am

Forgotten wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:39 am
Gamma-UT wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:34 am
For some bizarre reason they kept the developers in the dark on changes up to the last minute in an update known to break compatibility with a lot of old stuff.
They announced it explicitly in June of 2018, and long before that implied that Mojave would be the last version of MacOS to support 32-but code. Not exactly “last minute”.
Thanks Captain Obvious. That's not what I was referring to.

A number of developers have said there were detailed changes that only became known late in the cycle. And this is on top of a bunch of bugs in the release that break the things that were fixed. AIUI, the release got sprung on developers where normally they'd get a heads-up of a week or two. This is coming from developers who are pretty tight into the OS X ecosystem.

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Forgotten
KVRAF
4167 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:51 am

Who said it? I haven’t actually seen anything other than messages suggesting people don’t upgrade.

Quite honestly I think there would have been more online outrage if Apple had kept significant details from developers until the last minute, so I’m somewhat skeptical about developers really being kept in the dark.

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4916 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:56 am

So, in your view, a large number of developers just dropped the ball and failed to test their software against a stable beta and that's why so many are saying "hold off"?

OK, sounds legit.

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Forgotten
KVRAF
4167 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:07 am

I have no clue, that’s why I asked who you were talking about. I’d be interested to know what it was that Apple didn’t communicate until the last minute.

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Urs
u-he
23925 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:29 am

What was a bit out-of-the-blue for us was the realisation that having 64 bit alone doesn't cut it. Stuff needs a special "hardened runtime" thing which is available only from a relatively new toolchain. That relatively new toolchain doesn't do 32 bit at all *gulp*

Now, because the beta of Catalina is "lenient" for the time being, our stuff simply worked and thus we thought we're good. But it will very likely stop working next year, when that lenient phase is over. Hence, we're going to run a dual approach where our downloads will have new, absolutely safe installers and plug-ins, and an installer with software made from the old toolchain, which contains 32-bit plug-ins. We'll keep later up for a year or two before we finally switch to 64 bit only.

It is not an overly big deal for us. We're setting up a parallel build system with the latest toolchain. It works on individual dev machines, so now we just need an extra script which does an extra step or two and puts two installers into our downloads.

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Forgotten
KVRAF
4167 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:38 am

OK, so a surprise from a tool chain perspective? That makes sense - I had wondered why there was no universal outcry based on the phrasing above.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17159 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:54 am

Apple sucks. Apple always has sucked. Apple always WILL suck.

Windows user since DOS 3.0

Apple can burn in hell along with Camel Audio for all I care.

Cinebient
KVRAF
4234 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:00 am

Not sure but in the last years i maybe had 1-2 plug-ins not working and i always updated 1-2 months after the official releases.
So maybe a bit of drama from people which do not know or even do not use it?
But this year i also will wait a bit longer and wait if there is an upcoming "big" update for Logic which would need the latest OS (and if my favorite synth will still run on the latest OS).
There also were rumors that if you connect an iOS device with iOS 13 to your mac with pre High Sierra it could deactivate all your AU´s....but maybe just drama as well?!?
Whatever....follow rule Nr.1 on all OS (which all are breaking things in some ways): NEVER CHANGE A RUNNING SYSTEM!!!

chk071
KVRAF
21844 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:04 am

"Never change a running system" always sounds like Windows 98 to me. :D

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Forgotten
KVRAF
4167 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:05 am

Cinebient wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:00 am
Not sure but in the last years i maybe had 1-2 plug-ins not working and i always updated 1-2 months after the official releases.
So maybe a bit of drama from people which do not know or even do not use it?
Unfortunately that’s been an ongoing problem here...

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Urs
u-he
23925 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:06 am

wagtunes wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:54 am
Apple sucks. Apple always has sucked. Apple always WILL suck.
But they also, just like that, pulled a major blow against software piracy on their platform.

(pity we can't post links to the heartbreaking stories of warez users who shed tears over trying their cracked hosts and plug-ins on Catalina. I was in tears, too.)

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