Are some of East West Symphony orchestra demos fake?

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)
User avatar
poshook
KVRian
812 posts since 31 Aug, 2004

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:41 am

I just analysed Some of Thomas Bergersen work for East West demo page and its own work as 2 Steps from Hell (real orchestra recording).

1.Tower of Mischief:
Here is the link from EW Website/Demo page:
http://media.soundsonline.com/mp3/HB_To ... schief.mp3

Here is link from Youtube, where the track is played by real orchestra (two steps from hell album):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4tF4R24t1g

2. Allegro Agitato
Here the link from EW Demo page:
http://media.soundsonline.com/mp3/2432_ ... gitato.mp3

Here is the track played by real orchestra (two steps from hell album)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxNFYNjRYd8

After first listening they seem to be a little different, different EQ, dynamics etc. However when I analysed both tracks within DAW, the waveforms are identical in terms of timing and phase. I used 44100Hz resolution and they are completely in sync with an accuracy of one sample from very beginning to very end. I used simple EQ to add some bottom and high end to real recording versions and they are indistinguishable.

Here is the track creating from two tracks "real orchestra" track and "virtual library" track. One turns the other every few seconds. You can here small drop outs,
https://soundcloud.com/poshook/ewvsreal

So there are two explanation:
Either both versions of the same track are made by sample library or by real orchestra. From what I know, all albums of 2 Steps from Hell have been recorded using real orchestra. So I guess that demo tracks on EW demo page are not created by virtual orchestra
Last edited by poshook on Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

Ksamphos
KVRer
10 posts since 8 Feb, 2019

Re: Some of East West Symphony orchestra demos are fake

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:09 am

So you need a real orchestra to do the promised sound? :?

User avatar
poshook
KVRian
812 posts since 31 Aug, 2004

Re: Some of East West Symphony orchestra demos are fake

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:23 am

Ksamphos wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:09 am
So you need a real orchestra to do the promised sound? :?
Maybe virtual is capable doing pretty good results. But this is not the case.

User avatar
Vortifex
KVRian
1493 posts since 1 Sep, 2016

Re: Some of East West Symphony orchestra demos are fake

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:34 am

The demos and Youtube recordings seem identical to me. According to a TSFH fansite, Tower of Mischief first appeared on an industry album called Nero, recorded by the Capellen Orchestra. But the Capellen Orchestra page on Discogs has no record of them recording Tower of Mischief. The track was later released to the public on an album called Nero Anthology, which is for sale on iTunes but is not listed anywhere on Discogs. It seems the track was not recorded by the aforementioned orchestra, but without any more info it's not possible to say how it was recorded.

I can't see them trying to deceive people with fake demos recorded entirely with an orchestra. They would get found out too easily and it would be too damaging to their business. It's possible some of the demos are 'dressed', i.e. the sample libraries are complemented by real musicians. The demo for Tower of Mischief appears on the page for Hollywood Brass, so it's possible everything but the brass is played by an orchestra, which would not be deceptive IMO.

User avatar
poshook
KVRian
812 posts since 31 Aug, 2004

Re: Some of East West Symphony orchestra demos are fake

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:48 am

Vortifex wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:34 am
The demos and Youtube recordings seem identical to me. According to a TSFH fansite, Tower of Mischief first appeared on an industry album called Nero, recorded by the Capellen Orchestra. But the Capellen Orchestra page on Discogs has no record of them recording Tower of Mischief. The track was later released to the public on an album called Nero Anthology, which is for sale on iTunes but is not listed anywhere on Discogs. It seems the track was not recorded by the aforementioned orchestra, but without any more info it's not possible to say how it was recorded.

I can't see them trying to deceive people with fake demos recorded entirely with an orchestra. They would get found out too easily and it would be too damaging to their business. It's possible some of the demos are 'dressed', i.e. the sample libraries are complemented by real musicians. The demo for Tower of Mischief appears on the page for Hollywood Brass, so it's possible everything but the brass is played by an orchestra, which would not be deceptive IMO.
If those tracks where not recorded with real orchestra then it makes sense. However Allegro Agitato is no. 39 on the list of initial release in 2011.
I do not agree regarding brass demo. If developer sells full orchestral libraries and does not provide clear information what in the demo is created by real orchestra and what by virtual library, it is deceptive.
Last edited by poshook on Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Stefken
KVRAF
1635 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Some of East West Symphony orchestra demos are fake

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:49 am

I would not be surprised.
Deceit is the nature of East West.

User avatar
poshook
KVRian
812 posts since 31 Aug, 2004

Re: Are some of East West Symphony orchestra demos fake?

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:54 am

Just fyi, I own EW libraries and like them and use them a lot.

Elektronisch
KVRAF
3537 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Are some of East West Symphony orchestra demos fake?

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:55 am

I just analyzed your post and when you joined KVR.

Did your parents ever thought you reading the rules and follow them accordingly? Because this thread belong not in the instruments section...

either:

Getting Started or Sampled Libraries :wink:

User avatar
poshook
KVRian
812 posts since 31 Aug, 2004

Re: Are some of East West Symphony orchestra demos fake?

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:28 am

Elektronisch wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:55 am
I just analyzed your post and when you joined KVR.

Did your parents ever thought you reading the rules and follow them accordingly? Because this thread belong not in the instruments section...

either:

Getting Started or Sampled Libraries :wink:
Any on topic comment?

chk071
KVRAF
22156 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Are some of East West Symphony orchestra demos fake?

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:33 am

My advice: Don't waste your time chasing ghosts. ;)

Elektronisch
KVRAF
3537 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Are some of East West Symphony orchestra demos fake?

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:01 pm

poshook wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:28 am
Elektronisch wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:55 am
I just analyzed your post and when you joined KVR.

Did your parents ever thought you reading the rules and follow them accordingly? Because this thread belong not in the instruments section...

either:

Getting Started or Sampled Libraries :wink:
Any on topic comment?
Because yours is offtopic, you can consider i just gave one :clown:

User avatar
poshook
KVRian
812 posts since 31 Aug, 2004

Re: Are some of East West Symphony orchestra demos fake?

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:14 pm

Elektronisch wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:01 pm
poshook wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:28 am
Elektronisch wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:55 am
I just analyzed your post and when you joined KVR.

Did your parents ever thought you reading the rules and follow them accordingly? Because this thread belong not in the instruments section...

either:

Getting Started or Sampled Libraries :wink:
Any on topic comment?
Because yours is offtopic, you can consider i just gave one :clown:
East West Hollywood Orchestra is a bundle - library + virtual instrument sampler "Play". So we can argue about that

User avatar
thejonsolo
KVRAF
2181 posts since 13 Apr, 2008 from Charleston, SC

Re: Are some of East West Symphony orchestra demos fake?

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:47 pm

Way off topic...

Elektronisch, don't take this the wrong way...because you are correct about the placement of this thread, but are you policing this section? You brought this up in another thread.

This is KVR. There are no level heads here. There is no logic here. There are no real answers here. Just opinion and speculation and ridiculing and bickering etc. Sometimes we offer help and suggestions. Rarely, but sometimes.

Again YOU ARE RIGHT. So no argument about that. But I mean, bringing it is, well, as frivolous as this post is about you bringing it up.

So I guess, nevermind. :lol:

funky lime
KVRian
1311 posts since 17 Sep, 2002

Re: Some of East West Symphony orchestra demos are fake

Post Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:51 am

Since the demo is on their Hollywood Brass page, the only thing they are implying is that the demo contains Hollywood Brass. This does not mean this was the only brass library used, nor does it mean the demo does not contain an actual recorded orchestra. So it's not that they are "fake" but it is possible there is some "misleading-by-omission" going on, which is just how marketing works a lot of the time. Critical listening cap required, caveat emptor, etc.

Many devs offer "naked" audio demos of their libraries. Strange that EW does not in this case, but it doesn't surprise me, for reasons I will not get into here. Suffice it to say, I have ... an opinion about the guy who produces many of their products, based on his behavior on a different forum.

User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
19149 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Are some of East West Symphony orchestra demos fake?

Post Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:30 am

yeah

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