Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Official support for: bitwig.com
carlca
KVRist
122 posts since 17 Jan, 2005 from London

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:54 pm

I've noticed that the font used for the Browser (both side and popup) seems to be thinner and more "washed out" in 3.1b2/3 compared to 3.0.3. I'm guessing that this is due to the change in the Graphics coding. Has anyone else noticed this and does anyone know if anything can be done about it? This is on macOS 10.14.6 btw.
Last edited by carlca on Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

carlca
KVRist
122 posts since 17 Jan, 2005 from London

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:16 pm

For example, here is the side browser in 3.0.3...
Screenshot 2019-12-04 at 22.13.02.png
and here is the side browser in 3.1.b3...
Screenshot 2019-12-04 at 22.11.35.png
Hopefully, these screenshots will show off the difference.
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M-Prod
KVRist
230 posts since 1 Jun, 2005 from Zwolle, Netherlands

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:57 pm

Similar problems. Glad to see it's a general. My fonts look even a lot worse. I would prefer your 'new' fonts over mine ;-) but I guess it is resolution dependant. All in all 3.03 looks much better. Screen shots don't do just how annoying it is in practice. Be sure to report it, I did

im on osx 10.13.6

Top is beta2/3, bottom 3.03
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carlca
KVRist
122 posts since 17 Jan, 2005 from London

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:19 pm

I have reported it to beta@bitwig.com. I'm wondering if the problem is related to anti-aliasing on the fonts.

kdogg
KVRist
49 posts since 18 Nov, 2017

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:03 pm

Yeah noticing this here too, 3.0.3 looks much better, too thin and brittle looking. Also noticed the “Jump to Beginning of Next Bar” shortcut starts playback as well, the normal behavior is to just move the playhead and not start playback - 3.1 b2 didn’t have this. Guess I’ll have to file a bug report

M-Prod
KVRist
230 posts since 1 Jun, 2005 from Zwolle, Netherlands

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:50 am

kdogg wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:03 pm
Also noticed the “Jump to Beginning of Next Bar” shortcut starts playback as well, the normal behavior is to just move the playhead and not start playback - 3.1 b2 didn’t have this. Guess I’ll have to file a bug report
I noticed the same with. All the jump functions act like this now (when the sequencer is stopped, when it is running it should jump and play and that is still the case). I'll report it too.
Last edited by M-Prod on Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
1371 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:56 am

I think the sad reality is that Apple removed subpixel antialiasing for Metal2, not the Bitwig team. I even remember the reason: Apple wasn't able to properly GPU accelerate the subpixel antialiasing, so it caused slow downs. So Apple decided that every Mac user is using Retina screens and does not need it anymore. :hihi:

I could be wrong though, but read the linked article. As you can read, the fanboys even find a reason, why this is positive.

As far as I can tell, subpixel rendering improves readability even on 4k / Retina a lot. But I am still on High Sierra, for good reasons.

M-Prod
KVRist
230 posts since 1 Jun, 2005 from Zwolle, Netherlands

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:22 am

OMG I'm afraid you are right.. :( I hope this does not mean it's impossible to show anti aliased fonts in Bitwig on my system from now on. They're famous for supporting all these platforms so maybe the smart people at Bitwig will find a solution. I'm not sure what Logic Pro X uses to render stuff nowadays but those fonts surely look fine. I'm also on High Sierra and not planning to go Mojave by any means.

Inspecting the fonts more closely I can clearly see the difference (bottom is 3.1 beta). I still see anti aliasing though but those colours seem to make all the difference
Screen Shot 2019-12-06 at 11.13.30.png
Screen Shot 2019-12-06 at 11.13.35.png
All the graphics look perfect though so I still hope a minor fix for the fonts is enough.

And now I know when I work just on my MacBook it looks fine. But the pixel density is much higher there and bitwig is set to a 200% screen size by default so I guess that means double the pixels there.

But believe me when I say it's tiring to work with these fonts.
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Last edited by M-Prod on Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
1371 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:27 am

Well, there is some truth in Apple's immense arrogance/ignorance: Retina improves work a lot. Once you have it, there is no going back, since it is such an improvement for the eyes. The sad side even here is that Apple managed to reduce even the Retina quality with this nonsense.

stamp
KVRian
541 posts since 10 Sep, 2014

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:00 am

Given the fact that in Bitwig you pay for a limited time of upgrades and not a version like in other daws and considering all the time the devs have to spend to adapt the software to the mac ecosystem, everytime apple takes the decisions like this, and considering the fact that apple users are less in number then Windows and Linux user, apple users should pay more to buy and update Bitwig.

If you're willing to pay a premium to buy apple products, there should be no problem if you have to pay more to have software adapted for your platform.

I'm feeling like I'm paying for others people stupidity.

Sorry apple users, but that's how I feel. :shrug:

Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
1371 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:02 am

I think it actually is pretty 50/50. But why should Apple users pay for this, instead Apple should pay for this.

stamp
KVRian
541 posts since 10 Sep, 2014

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:06 am

Hanz Meyzer wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:02 am
I think it actually is pretty 50/50. But why should Apple users pay for this, instead Apple should pay for this.
viewtopic.php?t=481564&start=45

User avatar
terminus_one
KVRist
295 posts since 21 Jan, 2015

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:10 am

stamp wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:06 am
Hanz Meyzer wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:02 am
I think it actually is pretty 50/50. But why should Apple users pay for this, instead Apple should pay for this.
viewtopic.php?t=481564&start=45
You think 168 votes is representative enough of real-world usage?

Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
1371 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:15 am

stamp wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:06 am
Hanz Meyzer wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:02 am
I think it actually is pretty 50/50. But why should Apple users pay for this, instead Apple should pay for this.
viewtopic.php?t=481564&start=45
Ah thanks. Did not know that. At least it is 50/50 for some synth devs :? Yeah, I get your point, but as Apple user, your suggestion also feels a bit unfair, since not the users did something wrong, it was Apple. It is this ignorance of these guys, the lack of responsibility to maintain a computer platform, which causes a lot of harm.

stamp
KVRian
541 posts since 10 Sep, 2014

Re: Fonts in 3.1 beta 2/3

Post Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:30 am

Hanz Meyzer wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:15 am
Yeah, I get your point, but as Apple user, your suggestion also feels a bit unfair, since not the users did something wrong, it was Apple.
You're right, of course. And this is just my opinion. You (in the sense of the single person) know what's better for you, and if the devs think it's profitable to support the apple platform I have to deal with it (like any other Win/Linux user).

Peace!

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