Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Official support for: bitwig.com
SLiC
KVRAF
4378 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:05 am

I think some DAWS are aimed at 'producers' (i.e. not necessarily musicians) and some are aimed at more experimental musicians who want to push the boundaries of conventional composition. S1 has some excellent compositional tools and rearrangement tools for linear compositions, I use it a lot...Bitwig can achieve an amazing amount with its midi tools in the rack- its a totally different approach (it can 'play' with modulated and sequenced changes more like a modular synth).

Every aspect of Bitwigs midi and audio editing can be improved, I am absolutely sure they all will be over time...but for now I am still totally lost in the Grid and its infinite possibilities and more than happy to do standard stuff in standard DAWS....you will never have it all in one DAW, just use the DAW with the tools 'you' need (I also never need or want to chop anything up in the way you describe, but there are a ton of creative free VST's that do that type of thing)
i7 Win 10 PC+ Surface, BWS V3, StudioOne 4, Cubase 10, Live 9 suite, X32 Desk. , DM12, Odyssey, P8, Virus TI, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, Heat, Digitone, Deluge, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

Trancit
KVRAF
2450 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:59 am

pdxindy wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:51 am
Trancit wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:33 am
...but while you are still chopping up and rearranging the notes in Bitwig manually for hours to be able to bring different rythmical variations to your chords...
I don’t need to chop anything up... I play the chords I want.
Why don´t you quote the important part of my posting for this argument??
Trancit wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:33 am
So why does something like an arpeggiator exists at least as a plugin in every single DAW???
Very easy answer: It´s a timesaver and workflow helper and not everybody is a trained keyboard or piano player...

Trancit
KVRAF
2450 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:18 am

SLiC wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:05 am
I think some DAWS are aimed at 'producers' (i.e. not necessarily musicians) and some are aimed at more experimental musicians who want to push the boundaries of conventional composition. S1 has some excellent compositional tools and rearrangement tools for linear compositions, I use it a lot...Bitwig can achieve an amazing amount with its midi tools in the rack- its a totally different approach (it can 'play' with modulated and sequenced changes more like a modular synth).

Every aspect of Bitwigs midi and audio editing can be improved, I am absolutely sure they all will be over time...but for now I am still totally lost in the Grid and its infinite possibilities and more than happy to do standard stuff in standard DAWS....you will never have it all in one DAW, just use the DAW with the tools 'you' need (I also never need or want to chop anything up in the way you describe, but there are a ton of creative free VST's that do that type of thing)
Not aimed to this quote only:

Don´t get me wrong with my postings before...
From my side there is no criticism on Bitwig itself...

My postings were only aimed at those arguer who don´t stop stating, everybody who wants more tools than a record button and an arrow tool on the midi side only needs to learn music theory and everything is fine...

No DAW is perfect and every DAW can be improved somehow and requesting more advanced midi editing possibilities is absolutely legit...
Second, it is absolutely nonsense trying to convince anybody the PR Editor of FL Studio would be nothing special...
FL Studio has it flaws and shortcomings for sure and Bitwig as a complete package, even if it is much younger, is much more advanced and a pleasure to work with most of the time...

But the PR editor of FLS still wipes the floor with everything else available... and noone who worked seriously with it, will tell you something else...
Of course a 5 minute test is not enough to understand how to use it properly...

S1 and Reaper are on a good way but FLS is still king in this regard... and Bitwig sadly is far far away and no... Midi FX are no replacement as they only work in general on the midi data but not just on a selection of notes... Midi FX can do real cool things but are no replacement for a comprehensive set of midi tools in the PR editor...

jonljacobi
KVRian
1317 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:26 am

deleted

voidshine
KVRer
1 posts since 13 Jan, 2020

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:22 pm

Step record and a few other basics would be very welcome additions, but I actually quite like the uncluttered editor in Bitwig. The system is designed to be modular, keeping the core simple and delegating workflow-specific details to devices and extensions. As a developer, I really appreciate the open controller API and hope that someday I can add UI elements (like menus and mappable buttons) to juice up the MIDI editor as well. Imagine being able to configure a set of Bitwig extensions to add the features you want, without them getting buried in the mess of things you don't need!

lastmessiah
KVRist
75 posts since 23 Aug, 2017

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:35 pm

Bitwig has plenty of MIDI features. Just open the Note FX Device Type in Browser - channel filters and maps, transposers, micro-pitch, MIDI CC and selectors, multi-note (chords, duh), and a slew of note devices and effects. It is all there.

gerryp650
KVRist
128 posts since 6 Mar, 2004

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:06 pm

Having the Arranger and the Clip Launcher in the same window, with drag-and-drop capabilities between them, for me is a great workflow.

But nearly every aspect of Bitwig I have tried, I have wrestled with, mainly because of the bugs. No presets available with Plugin Alliance vsts, drag and drop not available for StylusRMX, and Arturia KeyPad K25 script doesn't work.

So my main vst presets are from Plugin Alliance, my main Percussion vst is StylusVST and my main keyboard is the Arturia KeyLab25! The most basic things I have tried have major bugs.

For the last couple of months, I keep saying WTF every time I go to use Bitwig. Either I have been extremely unlucky and found all the main bugs, or there are many within Bitwig.

It has not been a pleasant experience.

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
3292 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:02 pm

gerryp650 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:06 pm
Either I have been extremely unlucky and found all the main bugs, or there are many within Bitwig.

It has not been a pleasant experience.
I think it's your (lack of) luck combined with attitude...

Presets need to be in certain standard format (.fxp & .fxb) for them to be visible from Bitwig's browser (or 'folder' icon on the VST container), like for e.g. U-He plugins. If they're not - like most VSTs, for some reason - then you just need to get to them from within the plugin, like in ANY OTHER DAW.

Drag & drop - you sure you're running Bitwig with admin rights?

KeyLab25 - what you mean by "doesn't work"? Have you tried these scripts? Have you tried Flexi to make your own script (without ANY coding required):
https://www.bitwig.com/en/community/con ... eylab.html
https://github.com/git-moss/DrivenByMos ... eric-Flexi
Bitwig 3.1 // Reason 11.1 // Studio One 4.6 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

Trancit
KVRAF
2450 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:38 am

lastmessiah wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:35 pm
Bitwig has plenty of MIDI features. Just open the Note FX Device Type in Browser - channel filters and maps, transposers, micro-pitch, MIDI CC and selectors, multi-note (chords, duh), and a slew of note devices and effects. It is all there.
And none of them replaces an advanced set of tools inside the midi editor... these are 2 different worlds!

SLiC
KVRAF
4378 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:09 am

They are 2 different worlds, Bitwig may not be the right tool in the box for you (at the moment|) if you want to do predominately standard midi editing in the conventional way....lots of other choices for that, not so many for performance orientated DAWS with clip launchers, unified modulation, MPE and a Modular Engine built in....(I make it 1 :D )

Surprisingly although I have Cubase 10 (probably the standard for midi editing) and Studio One, I very rarely find I miss any of those tools when I use Bitwig, but I guess it just depends what you are trying to do...If I am doing orchestral scoring Bitwig wouldn't be the DAW I would click on...

I hope they add a few more tools for audio (ARA would do it for me!) and midi at some point, but it isn't killing my workflow in any way not having them at the moment, so much to explore in sound creation with the Grid and CV etc, working with little blocks of quantised midi all seems a bit dated!
i7 Win 10 PC+ Surface, BWS V3, StudioOne 4, Cubase 10, Live 9 suite, X32 Desk. , DM12, Odyssey, P8, Virus TI, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, Heat, Digitone, Deluge, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

T71
KVRist
220 posts since 10 Sep, 2008

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:36 pm

Trancit wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:38 am
lastmessiah wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:35 pm
Bitwig has plenty of MIDI features. Just open the Note FX Device Type in Browser - channel filters and maps, transposers, micro-pitch, MIDI CC and selectors, multi-note (chords, duh), and a slew of note devices and effects. It is all there.
And none of them replaces an advanced set of tools inside the midi editor... these are 2 different worlds!
Agreed. No offense to SLiC and others, but the "Just use a different DAW" retort is BS. :hihi:
Last edited by T71 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

T71
KVRist
220 posts since 10 Sep, 2008

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:36 pm

double-post

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
16263 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:38 pm

T71 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:36 pm
Trancit wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:38 am
lastmessiah wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:35 pm
Bitwig has plenty of MIDI features. Just open the Note FX Device Type in Browser - channel filters and maps, transposers, micro-pitch, MIDI CC and selectors, multi-note (chords, duh), and a slew of note devices and effects. It is all there.
And none of them replaces an advanced set of tools inside the midi editor... these are 2 different worlds!
Agreed. No offense to SLiC and others, but the "Just use a different DAW" retort is BS. :hihi:
Why is that BS? That seems smarter than sitting around for the next couple years waiting for Bitwig to possibly add the stuff you want.

T71
KVRist
220 posts since 10 Sep, 2008

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:39 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:38 pm
T71 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:36 pm
Trancit wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:38 am
lastmessiah wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:35 pm
Bitwig has plenty of MIDI features. Just open the Note FX Device Type in Browser - channel filters and maps, transposers, micro-pitch, MIDI CC and selectors, multi-note (chords, duh), and a slew of note devices and effects. It is all there.
And none of them replaces an advanced set of tools inside the midi editor... these are 2 different worlds!
Agreed. No offense to SLiC and others, but the "Just use a different DAW" retort is BS. :hihi:
Why is that BS? That seems smarter than sitting around for the next couple years waiting for Bitwig to possibly add the stuff you want.
Voicing feature requests for bread and butter features and constantly getting pooh-poohed by people who don't care about the features, is very annoying. We are paying customer's, too. Be quiet, or not :hihi:
Last edited by T71 on Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:03 am, edited 6 times in total.

T71
KVRist
220 posts since 10 Sep, 2008

Re: Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:41 pm

double-post

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