Do I need studio monitors? (Presonus Eris E3.5, E4.5, and/or E5 any good?)

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toine6
KVRian
1299 posts since 29 Mar, 2002 from Salt Lake City, Utah - U.S.A.

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:01 am

vurt wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:10 pm
toine6 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:32 am
.... I also like lo-fi stuff like Daniel Johnston, and they wouldn't play him either.
:hail: 8)
Yeah, I'm so glad I bought one of his original marker drawing's years ago. His death in October was tough, he had a rough life, but I could only celebrate all that he shared and gave us. The sadness and humor he combined in "going to the funeral home and I'm never coming back", has now played out, and he'll be missed. He's been an inspiration and reminder that it's not the equipment that makes the artist or holds them back. He didn't let ANYTHING hold him back. I don't care that his voice sometimes sounded like he was going through puberty, his timing was all over the place, there were drop outs and thuds, and over-saturation, clicks, much hiss, he was suffering from various mental conditions. The song and heart is there, and the talent too. I wouldn't necessarily try to make lo-fi for the sake of it (even though I sometimes do), but I do like the character of hearing someone making music in the laundry room, the click and hum of the cheap cassette recorder, mum yelling that you're lazy and need to do something constructive with your life, conversations in the background or sloppily added onto the track. The feelings are there, the environment is real, the day to day life is being lived and that moment is now a saved as a time capsule. It makes it unique and interesting, not just another typical multi-million dollar studio song. You can't buy that moment or environment, it just happens. To think that you could never record because everything from equipment, to talent, to noise in background, isn't studio grade, is the wrong attitude. Daniel did eventually make it to a big name recording studio, with a crew of people who worked with Paul McCartney. It's fine, they did a good job, it was interesting to hear him in a different setting, but it's not better than his earlier work. *ART PREFERENCE IS SUBJECTIVE* **POPULARITY, and SALES is OBJECTIVE** Marketing, timing, fads, visuals, age, demographics, luck, are all part of the equation too.

BTW. I've had a Vurt mp3 folder for many years, with a few of your songs in it. I see you as a true artist as well. Didn't matter that you basically made it in a mop room. There are quite a few real muscian's and artists on KVR. People I view as maybe not really having a mainstream "shake your ass on the dance floor" banger, but maybe having a sense of humor, or grace, or unique perspective, or fun, or exploration, or something different to say and on and on. I'm not sure a nice silky in your face sound would really make it better. Some things are not meant to be mainstream, and that's not a bad thing artistically.

Again, how anal people want to be fidelity wise, depends on your goals. If money and popularity is the main goal, then you usually have to play the game by the rules. I personally view people like Vurt and Daniel Johnston as successful artists. Vurt actually sounds pretty damn good. But if you compare them to commercial tracks they're maybe not as loud or punchy or something, but I respect them more than the majority of big name radio play people. Art is more than high-fidelity and money. Maybe not having the recording sound mainstream actually makes it more interesting to me, there's still something about it that sounds musical and curious. I can hear more because there isn't a huge bass hogging all the frequencies, or snare smacking me in the face. I can like both, but I like hearing things that are not the same old same old. Hi-fi can actually be a trade off in some ways, you usually have to get rid of the noise, you have to reduce dynamics, it GENERALLY should be pure and pristine or you run into problems. Sometimes it's best for the song, sometimes not.

But I love plenty of mainstream acts, and there's a place for that. To get it right, still be mainstream and not sell yourself out, but to use it to enhance your art. I guess that's the real goal most artist's are hoping to achieve.

Sorry, got off topic. But use whatever equipment you have and make the most of it, don't let it hold you back. I suppose you should always try to have the best equipment, but it doesn't mean it will necessarily make things better. It's true that if your monitors and room are not right, as was stated, you have to guess more about the choices you make, you're flying half blind. But as was also stated, whatever your environment is, you will kind of learn it and adjust to it. Comparing your tracks to commercial tracks as reference material is a good way to have an idea of where you're at.

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
56587 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Do I need studio monitors? (Presonus Eris E3.5, E4.5, and/or E5 any good?)

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:13 am

oh man :o
you just brought tears to my eyes :oops:
seriously, to be mentioned in the same sentence as daniel is truely an honour.
thank you 8)

:hug:

and yeah, another sad loss, but he is at peace now at least :(
farewell brother. rip.

User avatar
pekbro
KVRAF
2799 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: Do I need studio monitors? (Presonus Eris E3.5, E4.5, and/or E5 any good?)

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:36 pm

I have a $10K Eurorack system outputting to a $300 pair of Eris 5's. They sound fine for the most part,
save that their low end isn't super low. I've been leaving them on 24 hours a day for a couple years
thinking that maybe they will die, so I can convince myself to get a better pair of monitors, but they
don't. Anyway, they are definitely usable, though you really are forced to check your sound through
other devices and whatnot, which you should probably do anyway.

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
56587 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Do I need studio monitors? (Presonus Eris E3.5, E4.5, and/or E5 any good?)

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:01 pm

pekbro wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:36 pm
I have a $10K Eurorack system outputting to a $300 pair of Eris 5's. They sound fine for the most part,
save that their low end isn't super low. I've been leaving them on 24 hours a day for a couple years
thinking that maybe they will die, so I can convince myself to get a better pair of monitors, but they
don't. Anyway, they are definitely usable, though you really are forced to check your sound through
other devices and whatnot, which you should probably do anyway.
my monitors are hang ups from the days i was poor (seriously, like getting food parcels from friends poor) my old ones blew so i meeded something just to hear something.

went to dawsons, said "ive got £90, what can you do me monitors wise".
they had some samson ones that where 99.99.
they did me a deal. basically multimedia speakers.

then suddenly after winning a long drawn out (7 years) court battle, was no longer poor.

spent slightly less than you so far on the modular, but it sounds effing awesome through those cheap ass speakers, so havent felt a need to replace them.
no one has ever commented on any issues that i would put down to bad monitoring at my end either :shrug:

User avatar
pekbro
KVRAF
2799 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: Do I need studio monitors? (Presonus Eris E3.5, E4.5, and/or E5 any good?)

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:37 pm

vurt wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:01 pm

spent slightly less than you so far on the modular, but it sounds effing awesome through those cheap ass speakers, so havent felt a need to replace them.
no one has ever commented on any issues that i would put down to bad monitoring at my end either :shrug:
Heh, I rounded it off, the modular grid lists it at slightly over $9500, all said and done
though, it's probably a fair amount more than 10k with all the other crap I bought for it.

Definitely, the Presonus monitors sound good to me. Maybe if I had a dog, I would need
moar frequency range. I'm turning 50 and with my very good hearing (compensating for my
bad vision) tops out way below their rated frequency range.

I mostly switch rather than mix anyway nowdays... :D

Of course, you're then one with the new grandkid, grandkids have notoriously good hearing
ranges as I understand. :)

Ploki
KVRian
1252 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Do I need studio monitors? (Presonus Eris E3.5, E4.5, and/or E5 any good?)

Post Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:08 am

here's some recent first-hand experience.
One of my focal Twins just went out for service... so i setup my ancient Tascam VL-X5 i still have from high school, with JL Audio f112 woofer. (My room is extremely treated)

The difference isn't as drastic as I expected. The woofer absolutely saves them tho, without woofer they have absolutely no low-end.

This isn't the first time I experienced this - when i just finished high school I diy-ed acoustics in a small basement (rockwool, but a lot of it) - the VL-X5 suddenly started sounding amazing compared to before. I don't think they're good speakers at all. Decent for 200$ but that's about it.

Here's a hot take - the room affects your monitoring experience much more than the actual monitors.

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
56587 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Do I need studio monitors? (Presonus Eris E3.5, E4.5, and/or E5 any good?)

Post Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:00 am

pekbro wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:37 pm
Of course, you're then one with the new grandkid, grandkids have notoriously good hearing
ranges as I understand. :)
going to be a good while before shes much help in the studio :hihi:
well, beyond providing sample food of course :D

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
56587 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Do I need studio monitors? (Presonus Eris E3.5, E4.5, and/or E5 any good?)

Post Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:06 am

Ploki wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:08 am

Here's a hot take - the room affects your monitoring experience much more than the actual monitors.
indeed!

also, knowing your equipment and its weaknesses.
ie listen to music you know and love, get to know whats missing and you can learn to compensate somewhat.

obviously getting the best room and equipment is the ideal. but not everyone has a budget to cover a pro level studio in their spare room.

you can of course do the "well if i cant afford a stradivarius theres no point learning the violin" type thing...
and sit and waste time in front of the tv.

Pjoneal50
KVRer
3 posts since 15 Apr, 2018

Re: Do I need studio monitors? (Presonus Eris E3.5, E4.5, and/or E5 any good?)

Post Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:18 am

If you’re truly trying to master and not just mix your music, spend your money on a service, like Landr. If you want to learn how to mix without headphones, it *is* possible with cheaper speakers, just harder. Acoustic treatment can help with mid-high frequencies, doesn’t do much for bass. You can Learn your room/speakers by mixing with reference tracks, I use a VST called Magic A/B. It takes practice and time in front of the machine. A great book is Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio. Good luck!

Ploki
KVRian
1252 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Do I need studio monitors? (Presonus Eris E3.5, E4.5, and/or E5 any good?)

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:24 am

Pjoneal50 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:18 am
Acoustic treatment can help with mid-high frequencies, doesn’t do much for bass.
that's just plain wrong tho

User avatar
pekbro
KVRAF
2799 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: Do I need studio monitors? (Presonus Eris E3.5, E4.5, and/or E5 any good?)

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:47 pm

Looks like Dave Smith is using some presonus monitors at namm, not the Eris series likely.
https://youtu.be/O1k_4sO0GNY

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