Overpriced Spitfire products

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)
Kongru
KVRian
803 posts since 23 Feb, 2017

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:48 am

I find some of the posts in this thread rather disingenuous. Spitfire Audio is well respected within the industry, and for good reason. They make quality products and I've found that each product caters to a particular subset of composers - for example, Albion One is obviously aimed at epic film/ trailer composers. Yes they are a little overzealous with their marketing campaigns (just check the Spitfire threads over at VI Control) however the onus is on the prospective buyer to ensure that they fully understand the product and what they're getting rather than relying on the seller's description. This does not mean that the products are low quality. They will usually release multiple walkthroughs per library, in addition to the FAQs, manual and third party reviews/ walkthroughs. Spitfire also do a 40% off sale every Christmas whereas some other popular sample libary creators rarely have sales.

At the end of the day big movies will record an orchestra rather than use sample libaries, so all arguments about Spitfire products become moot past a certain point in your career.
Signatures are so early 2000s.

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tehlord
KVRAF
7911 posts since 22 Sep, 2008 from Windsor. UK

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:07 am

AngelCityOutlaw wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:13 am
tehlord wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:42 am
Hands up who actually uses these products professionally here?
Hand up. Also I personally know, have studied and worked with professional film composers. Most of them do an average of 2-3 minutes per day.

Consider that Howard Shore was doing like 7 a day, but that was for LOTR.
tehlord wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:42 am
Hands up if you know how much money it costs to record real musicians in a high quality environment with high quality gear.
Hand up.

Can I ask where you're going with this?
You know exactly where I'm going with this, most people's hands won't be up and they're complaining without any point of perspective.

Good quality orchestral libraries are expensive because of the nature of the product. It has always been this way.

The success of these libraries negates the idea that they are overpriced, because if they were they simply wouldn't exist in the numbers they do.

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AngelCityOutlaw
KVRist
156 posts since 4 Dec, 2017

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:47 am

tehlord wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:07 am
Good quality orchestral libraries are expensive because of the nature of the product. It has always been this way.
"Quality" is more or less what's being called into question here, though.
tehlord wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:07 am
The success of these libraries negates the idea that they are overpriced, because if they were they simply wouldn't exist in the numbers they do.
Is the idea that college tuition in America is over-priced negated because people are still going to school and putting themselves in massive debt to do so, when other countries sometimes offer the same (or even better) education for less?

Is that stand Apple sells for 1000 not overpriced just because brand-loyal customers will buy it?

Image

Just because people are buying expensive things, doesn't mean those expensive things are "worth it" because it fails to compare other products that do the same things. That is the idea that for some reason, people do not seem to process in this debate.

When smaller devs than Spitfire, Cinesamples, etc. are able to put out software with greater musical capability and equal sound-quality for the same or less money, someone just explain in a straight line how the less-useful product is still money well-spent?

I recall some years back, when Calgary flooded, some stores were selling ice for $25 because people were desperate.

Is a bag of ice ever actually worth $25, or do you thing maybe that's just getting f**ked by the business owner?

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
5211 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:29 am

AngelCityOutlaw wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:47 am
When smaller devs than Spitfire, Cinesamples, etc. are able to put out software with greater musical capability and equal sound-quality for the same or less money, someone just explain in a straight line how the less-useful product is still money well-spent?
At least try to make a good-faith argument. Spitfire sells libraries that are feature-level comparable to, say, Cinesamples. SCS, Symphonic Orchestra, Studio Orchestra. It’s funny how you never mention those.

Also, the scoring Shore was doing was to live orchestra. That’s minutes per manuscript not mixable music. People using Albion or SSO are not writing to manuscript- they are expected to turn in audio that’s ready to inject into Pro Tools.

agharta
KVRist
456 posts since 10 Jan, 2018

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:14 am

The Vengeance of a Remorseful Sample Library Buyer.
Coming to a cinema near you soon.
Music by Hans Zimmer.

Notes.
No refunds if you don't like the film, check reviews first.
Ticket prices will vary by location and aren't necessarily indicative of the quality of the venue.
Other films are available to view.

epiphaneia
KVRian
730 posts since 29 May, 2011 from Germany

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:42 am

AngelCityOutlaw wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:47 am
Just because people are buying expensive things, doesn't mean those expensive things are "worth it" because it fails to compare other products that do the same things. That is the idea that for some reason, people do not seem to process in this debate.
Or (now I have an absolutely crazy idea: ) disagree with it without being less smart or insightful.

"Worth it" is usually highly subjective and there are hardly perfect ceteris paribus situations. Just tell any random kid in the street that his Adidas or Nike sneakers "aren´t worth it because $10 Walmart sneakers do the same thing". With a worldview of that, the world is surely full of people who make "wrong, silly purchases" and "waste their money all the time" (ie buy things you wouldn´t buy for yourself).
AngelCityOutlaw wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:47 am
When smaller devs than Spitfire, Cinesamples, etc. are able to put out software with greater musical capability and equal sound-quality for the same or less money, someone just explain in a straight line how the less-useful product is still money well-spent?
Oh, is there an objective and absolute ranking that is valid for everyone and every use case now? How about you lay it down quickly, and then we´ll guess why people at vi-c or the soundboard lack this valuable insight and instead discuss over years and years, thousands of posts and hundreds of mockups which library is the best for what, never find one universal result and still respect other fractions´ views instead of going: "Fact: Company A. If you buy products by company B, you must be out of your mind. How can you do so and waste valuable money? Explain yourself".

Maybe the people there lack some greater insight, but a lot of the people there *are* working media composers, even a couple A-listers there. And among them, you´ll also find a lot of people who find it too expensive (remember, the freelancer´s or the studio clock is ticking at several hundred to many thousand $ per hour) to watch hours of youtube walkthroughs before committing what is nothing more than pocket money on a library purchase.

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AngelCityOutlaw
KVRist
156 posts since 4 Dec, 2017

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:50 pm

epiphaneia wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:42 am
Oh, is there an objective and absolute ranking that is valid for everyone and every use case now? How about you lay it down quickly
I already did and provided several examples, but hey why not repeat myself yet again since this is apparently such a difficult concept?

Can the thing that you bought for the purpose of playing music, actually play music? Like with an actual melody and rhythm? Or does it just make orchestral noise with string pads and ostinatos?

Here's some $400 - 500 orchestral noise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur5uwdN0tKI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pupyywf4ABE

Here's some $1000 ones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B49AQdh1sTw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vupSoGlmoXY

Here's some $500 libraries playing orchestral music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBsEBQ56U3E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzMKrsyE-Pg

Here's some $400 libraries playing orchestral music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlcuYdG4KQc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y949Bh2ydY

Here's some $250 ones playing orchestral music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_yyt69j_LM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjiuDozhoqA

Here's a 150 dollar soundset playing orchestral music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXFO3QBGx0U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzvYRy_w6bc

The idea that there is no objective criteria that can be used to judge the performance, viability and value of a sample library for your money is laughable — it's obvious that it's "its ability to play music" is the criteria.

All of these cheaper libraries are very flexible and can play the boring noise found in the official demos of the expensive libraries I linked to. I can not, however, find any demo on YouTube or the official sites that demonstrate the more expensive libraries playing what the cheaper ones do and when you flip through the manuals or use them for yourself, it becomes obvious why.

This entire thread is basically, right now, a bunch of people flipping because I effectively said "Hey, sample libraries that are able to play musically are better than ones that can't."

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dandezebra
KVRian
1306 posts since 21 Dec, 2013 from USA

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:43 pm

AngelCityOutlaw wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:59 pm
dandezebra wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:16 pm
I'm super pissed about the price of yachts. Like I need a yacht to go bass fishing. Everyone that owns a yacht wasted money and is an assneck. Bass fishing is the only reason to own any watercraft.
If the yacht is supposed to be these Spitfire or whatever other high-price, low-utility products we've talked about in this thread, then to say you've missed the point is an understatement.
I think someone missed the sarcasm.

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
5211 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:59 am

AngelCityOutlaw wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:50 pm
Here's some $500 libraries playing orchestral music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBsEBQ56U3E
Five hundred bucks? I'm in.

Oh wait. Total cost: $2500

The Performance Samples stuff alone tops $500 for a limited selection (of very good) articulations - so not exactly flexible unless your music consists of fast legato playing.
Here's some $250 ones playing orchestral music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjiuDozhoqA
Wow, that's amazing. Percussion and strings all in one brass library for two-fiddy. Incredible value. If true. But it isn't.

Again, nice library for action-film brass, hence the name. But, again not exactly flexible or comprehensive.

Framing, eh? But who needs honesty in the City of Angels?

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AngelCityOutlaw
KVRist
156 posts since 4 Dec, 2017

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:05 am

Gamma-UT wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:59 am
AngelCityOutlaw wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:50 pm
Here's some $500 libraries playing orchestral music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBsEBQ56U3E
Five hundred bucks? I'm in.

Oh wait. Total cost: $2500
I said libraries. Plural.

As I've said before, if you've got 1500 to spend on winds, strings, or brass, there is no good reason to go with something like Cinesamples over what you see in those examples.
Gamma-UT wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:59 am
Wow, that's amazing. Percussion and strings all in one brass library for two-fiddy. Incredible value. If true. But it isn't.

Again, nice library for action-film brass, hence the name. But, again not exactly flexible or comprehensive.

Framing, eh? But who needs honesty in the City of Angels?
The irony, lol. The demos are specifically of the brass or strings.

Ignoring the 400 and 150 dollar options as well, I see. Which, conveniently, are also among the best ones, most-comprehensive ones.

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
5211 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:07 am

Noteperformer is a good tool. But is someone seriously going to send that rendition to a music director for actual use rather than as a guide for a live orchestra? It gets pretty wobbly halfway through (which is not unreasonable given the limitations of a notation-to-audio tool).

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
5211 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:13 am

AngelCityOutlaw wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:05 am
I said libraries. Plural.
Above more than one video.

Framing, eh? But who needs honesty in the City of Angels?
The irony, lol. The demos are specifically of the brass or strings.
And yet, not exactly something you emphasise.

Framing, eh? But who needs honesty in the City of Angels?

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
2940 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:46 am

Sorry, what is everyone arguing about here? I've read the last couple of pages and I can't figure it out.

I love KVR in its own way, I basically go to it for synth / general electronic music info and opinion. But orchestral libraries... hmmmyeuum not so much. I guess for many people here they'd like a bit of orch-ish colour now and then. There's tons of brilliant pop / hip hop records that use really cheap orchestral libraries like Miroslav Philharmonic... they're not meant to sound super-realistic, but they can work just great in context.

But if you want to compose something that sounds like an orchestra and get the best tools for doing that, then its a rabbit hole that really KVR does not go down. It requires a lot of time, effort, patience and experience both in terms of composition and the whole area of knowing what to buy and how to use it. And as someone mentioned above, VI Control (full-on, high post turnover, lots of developers and advertising) or The Soundboard (quieter, no ads, more homely) are the places to go.
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Harry_HH
KVRAF
3953 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:16 pm

Better read the whole story before commenting, its only 9 pages - or at least read always first 2 pages. Usually one or two hijacks the thread for a while, which may lead the subject long away from the original, intended area - as e.g. your reply proves.

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layzer
KVRAF
6697 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:11 pm

Gamma-UT wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:01 am
layzer wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:13 am
yeah, go ahead and make yourself more stupid saying this doesnt sound good.
https://soundcloud.com/layzerkvr/ramirez-precious-time
But what happens when the director or production manager on your project asks "why doesn't it sound like a real cello?
i say why is hair number 999,998 out of place on your head? gimmi an effin break. :roll:
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