Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
empphryio
KVRist
49 posts since 14 Apr, 2019

Post Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:23 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:41 am
If you have a melodic part or hook it's a lot easier ...
Can you point to any examples of good instrumental music that follow a traditional pop song structure? Ababcb sort of stuff? It seems like all the instrumental music I really like departs greatly from that form. ...I'll Remember by Chameleons did so i think. More common in my experience would Center Bullet by Skinny Puppy or Dead Can Dance stuff which isn't close.

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AngelCityOutlaw
KVRist
180 posts since 4 Dec, 2017

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:36 pm

empphryio wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:23 pm
thecontrolcentre wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:41 am
If you have a melodic part or hook it's a lot easier ...
Can you point to any examples of good instrumental music that follow a traditional pop song structure?
Yep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RE-aD5lYdU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me8Z3YteCq8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlEdKXBLn2Q

https://youtu.be/48GC0QOgNyg

empphryio
KVRist
49 posts since 14 Apr, 2019

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:39 pm

AngelCityOutlaw wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:36 pm
empphryio wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:23 pm
thecontrolcentre wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:41 am
If you have a melodic part kor hook it's a lot easier ...
Can you point to any examples of good instrumental music that follow a traditional pop song structure?
Yep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RE-aD5lYdU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me8Z3YteCq8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlEdKXBLn2Q

https://youtu.be/48GC0QOgNyg
No offense but I'm trying to learn here and I don't have a lot of time to spend. Maybe an hour on music on weeknights. Did you post those to be funny?

That first one. It seems like it's basically repeating i think 16 bars over and over again. Occasionally an octave higher. Does the octave higher count as the chorus to you?

The second basically repeated endlessly except for changing up the instruments and occasionally adding some backing. It had
a few bridges but either no verse or no chorus. Or the two were so similar I couldn't tell them apart...? Did you hear both verses and a chorus? I felt the few lower volume bits were bridges..

Yanni certainly wasn't repetitive. Did you feel like that was ABABCB...? Seemed almost like jazz to me and not traditional pop song structure at all. But I could be wrong.

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AngelCityOutlaw
KVRist
180 posts since 4 Dec, 2017

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:07 pm

empphryio wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:39 pm
No offense but I'm trying to learn here and I don't have a lot of time to spend. Maybe an hour on music on weeknights. Did you post those to be funny?
I don't know, did you post this to be an asshole? You ask for examples, and then when you get them you bitch that you don't have time to listen to music...
empphryio wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:39 pm
That first one. It seems like it's basically repeating i think 16 bars over and over again.
"Traditional" pop song structure follows Verse - Chorus, in other words A/B structure. Beyond that, there is no truly ubiquitous structure.

Morrison's Jig literally follows this A/B structure. An A theme, and a different B theme which is higher. It's just like Spanish Lady or Drunken Sailor. I'd link examples, but I don't want to take too much of your time.

It basically doesn't get any more "pop" than that. By your definition, any pop song that doesn't have a bridge wouldn't be a pop song.
The second basically repeated endlessly except for changing up the instruments and occasionally adding some backing.
The second clearly states its theme, develops on it, and then has differing passages in between repeats. Again, that is pop song structure.
Yanni certainly wasn't repetitive. Did you feel like that was ABABCB...?
After the intro, the A theme begins at 19 seconds, the "chorus" comes in a 51 seconds. This continues for a while, and the "chorus" comes back once again at 2:44. At about 3:30, the section from 1:26, which leads to the main theme, is repeated.

All of the parts within the first 3 and half minutes of the song are continuously brought back in the song, and generally in the same order. But each time they are played, there is some variation to them because in instrumental music, it is incredibly boring if you just repeated the "verse" and "chorus" sections exactly.

Basically every instrumental piece from just about any video game you saw in the arcades from 1990 - 2000 follows "pop" song structure too, but on a loop.

empphryio
KVRist
49 posts since 14 Apr, 2019

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:53 pm

Stopped reading after first sentence. Have a good one troll.

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AngelCityOutlaw
KVRist
180 posts since 4 Dec, 2017

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:13 pm

empphryio wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:53 pm
Stopped reading after first sentence. Have a good one troll.
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imrae
KVRian
925 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:22 am

empphryio wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:39 pm
I'm trying to learn here and I don't have a lot of time to spend.
You're gonna have a bad time then. If you want to use your time effectively, and at your current level you don't understand how to listen to those examples, then I would recommend you get a teacher.

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AngelCityOutlaw
KVRist
180 posts since 4 Dec, 2017

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:28 am

imrae wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:22 am
empphryio wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:39 pm
I'm trying to learn here and I don't have a lot of time to spend.
You're gonna have a bad time then. If you want to use your time effectively, and at your current level you don't understand how to listen to those examples, then I would recommend you get a teacher.
Yeah, not to mention that any teacher worth their salt will tell you how important critical listening and study of existing works is.

If someone doesn't have the patience to listen 2 and a half minutes into a piece, or even just skip through them to identify repeated section and phrases, then I can't imagine they'll have much patience for the much more-important stuff like examining melody, harmony, instrumentation, developing their pitch...

empphryio
KVRist
49 posts since 14 Apr, 2019

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:06 am

imrae wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:22 am
empphryio wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:39 pm
I'm trying to learn here and I don't have a lot of time to spend.
You're gonna have a bad time then. If you want to use your time effectively, and at your current level you don't understand how to listen to those examples, then I would recommend you get a teacher.
I'll probably manage as I've recorded over 150 tracks over the years without dealing with assholes.

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AngelCityOutlaw
KVRist
180 posts since 4 Dec, 2017

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:47 pm

empphryio wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:06 am
imrae wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:22 am
empphryio wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:39 pm
I'm trying to learn here and I don't have a lot of time to spend.
You're gonna have a bad time then. If you want to use your time effectively, and at your current level you don't understand how to listen to those examples, then I would recommend you get a teacher.
I'll probably manage as I've recorded over 150 tracks over the years without dealing with assholes.
Something about quality and quantity, though...

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Hink
Rad Grandad
30508 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:17 pm

let's end this please
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

ph4ge
KVRer
3 posts since 6 Feb, 2017 from Chicago

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:01 pm

:o Yes. End it please. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Everyone - I appreciate all of your comments to my original post. Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AngelCityOutlaw - I think your be right about having more structure and a melody. I admit most of my stuff is just playing around with a chord sequence - or 1 chord/scale - because of my limited music theory knowledge. A friend had also pointed out this when I asked him.

I am aware of the ABABCB structure, and appreciate the thinking it may be in the kinds of sounds/instruments I am using. Especially the drums concerns me as I am influenced by Depeche Mode and Skinny Puppy. I suck at drum sequencing but am learning.

My friend also suggested I modulate more. So I will try that.

In the meantime I just created another song with a single bass riff all the way through - I know, bad me - I need to stop that. Should be up early next month at soundcloud.com/fvmp for the Jan/Feb challenge I have with my friends.

OR,...maybe just explore this soundtrack side of me and get it out of my system while learning about music theory. I did the following to demo a couple Spitfire VSTs. I think it has got some movement in it.

https://youtu.be/Avg_FdjmA_w

ph4ge
KVRer
3 posts since 6 Feb, 2017 from Chicago

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:13 pm

Winstontaneous wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:14 pm
The phrase "Runway Lights" brought up "fashion show" rather than "airport" for me.
You're correct. Fashion show was the intent not airport. I just watched Duran Duran's Girl Panic video and was inspired, but then I listened to Green Haven DJ's "Hall of Records" and liked that also. :tu:

currentsound
KVRist
39 posts since 18 Nov, 2019

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:58 pm

EDM and Pop songs are all based around chords. Classical music and Soundtracks like yours are based more off scales and harmonies but do often have an underlying chord progression although you might not be aware of what it is. If you want to learn more about pop chord chord progressions that you can use in your productions, this article is a good read: https://currentsound.com/music-producti ... roduction/

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Forgotten
KVRAF
8366 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Songs Always "Sound Like a Soundtrack"

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:19 pm

currentsound wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:58 pm
EDM and Pop songs are all based around chords. Classical music and Soundtracks like yours are based more off scales and harmonies but do often have an underlying chord progression although you might not be aware of what it is. If you want to learn more about pop chord chord progressions that you can use in your productions, this article is a good read: https://currentsound.com/music-producti ... roduction/
So how are scales and harmonies different from chords?

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