keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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Krakatau
KVRAF
5571 posts since 25 May, 2002 from Bobo-dioulasso\BF__Geneva/CH

Post Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:17 am

Hi
Considering Keyscape as being one if not the most effective and detailed multisampled keyboards collection among the most playable of them, i'd like to know if for keyboard performers, they can still compete , especially in term of playability with the best modelled keyboards, like Pianoteq and it's numerous addons for instance ?

And all in all what are the good and the bad of both current technologies ?

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
5276 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:37 am

Keyscape sounds great. Pianoteq is more to fun to play IMO: it feels more responsive to me, though there isn't that much in it. A lot comes down to how much you want a particular sound vs playability. And a lot is personal preference.

Unfortunately, there's no way to demo most of the sampled options other than the VSL instruments.

Kevin63101
KVRist
360 posts since 30 Apr, 2008 from St Louis, MO

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:58 am

As a keyboardist I love Keyscape ...which is on my shortlist of must have collections. Very realistic and wonderful.

That said, I don't use the Keyscape acoustic pianos except when in layered patches with other instruments. I prefer Synthology Ivory (highly recommend "Studio Grands" and "Upright" collections) and a few other dedicated piano sample libraries (such as Wavesfactory "Mercury").

I don't own modeled Pianoteq but would consider it primarily if I played live for its lighter cpu. (TBH I'd probably use a digital stage hardware piano if I went back to performing live again).

mrsugmad
KVRist
186 posts since 30 Nov, 2007

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:01 pm


User avatar
Captain
KVRian
511 posts since 29 Nov, 2002 from Finland

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:39 pm

I find myself going back and forth between Keyscape and Pianoteq, depending on which seems to work/sound best in the project at hand. And often choosing which one is ”better” even in the context is difficult. :) I often tend to start with Pianoteq, just because it opens almost instantly and doesn’t use much memory, and it’s super fast to compare its different piano models. Then at some point I might open Keyscape and see how it sounds... and I either switch, or stick to Pianoteq. Mostly I seem to stick to whatever I started with, because I’m laz... because I have already built everything on top of a specific sound. Anyway, I think you can’t go wrong with either, or with any decent sampled piano.

Funny thing: I recently played a real Yamaha grand piano, and was surprised how bad it sounds compared to Pianoteq, which I have been using a lot lately (with a lot of reverb). Well OK, not bad by any means, but ”small”, ”thin”, etc. It’s probably about acoustics, and maybe it requires certain recording & mixing techniques to make it larger than life... but my first impression was kind ”oh ok”. We have been spoiled by plugins that are too good. :D

anomandaris1
KVRist
397 posts since 26 Nov, 2009

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:46 pm

I doubt Keyscape can compete with top Kontakt libraries in terms of details - it should have been many terabytes with this amount of instruments they have included.
About Pianoteq - it is just the best. End of story.You may need to process it to make it sound to your liking, but it is the closest thing to real, playable instrument.

User avatar
Krakatau
KVRAF
5571 posts since 25 May, 2002 from Bobo-dioulasso\BF__Geneva/CH

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:51 am

:oops:

I apologise there is one point i neglected to clearly underline :

- Beyond the comparison of both types of pianos, how are the pianoteq addons compared to the huge palette of keyboards sampled in keyscape ?

:idea:

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PatchAdamz
KVRAF
4813 posts since 13 Nov, 2012

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:22 am

I have yet to find a perfect sampled or modeled piano.
Maybe its out there but there is nothing like the real thing.

Having said that, with any sampled or modeled piano its how you mix it that makes the diffidence.

The right Eq, reverb, effects, make all the difference.

User avatar
Gamma-UT
KVRAF
5276 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:27 am

Krakatau wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:51 am
:oops:

I apologise there is one point i neglected to clearly underline :

- Beyond the comparison of both types of pianos, how are the pianoteq addons compared to the huge palette of keyboards sampled in keyscape ?

:idea:
I don't really understand the question. What do you want to compare? If it's number of models of actual keyboards, those are shown at Modartt's site. You can also demo them (some keys don't play - different random selection each time). As they're models, you have quite a range of tweaks if you have Pro or Standard.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7725 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:59 am

anomandaris1 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:46 pm
I doubt Keyscape can compete with top Kontakt libraries in terms of details - it should have been many terabytes with this amount of instruments they have included.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Spectrasonics are amazing at recording instruments, be it the Keyscape instruments, or the basses in Trilian or many soundsources in Omnisphere. In fact it can be quite infuriating because often I have instruements that are better scripted in Kontakt, but there are similar Spectra versions that just sound so much better. I've never heard any other electric pianos that sound as good as the ones in Keyscape that's for sure. And the acoustic pianos in Keyscape also beat most kontakt ones I have, especially the ones included in Komplete, even though again as far as scripting, the kontakt pianos often have some advantages like sympathetic resonance.

But yeah I think the Kontakt engine is more efficient and capable but damn the spectrasonics instruments have a detail, clarity and fullness I just don't expect to be improved upon.

Of course that's just the sound, play-ability is another thing. You'll never beat physical modeling in that regard. But I think that really only comes into play with some serious virtuosity, which I don't possess. ;)
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

Cinebient
KVRAF
4456 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:23 am

Keyscape is my goto. But i like especially the things like the Wing Tack piano. Also having these sorces within the Omnisphere 2 engine is a big plus for me. I would buy it again alone for the Wing, Toy, Glock and some other rare sampled acoustic pianos/keys. I almost never use the EP‘s.
But i mostly use a 2-3 layer of Keyscape.

yellowmix
KVRAF
1524 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:46 pm

Keyscape is a pleasure to play and it sounds great. The sheer diversity and breadth is unbeatable. Like previously stated great as soundsources for Omnisphere and lots of creative potential. No key aficionado would regret it.

One major thing Pianoteq has over sampled pianos is it models sympathetic resonance. For a sampled piano to do that, every key combination would have to be recorded to bake it in. There are some that try but it is impossible to do that especially when new notes overlap. So that is one reason why it sounds so good.

As for the non-piano models, they sound great too. Personally love the Steelpans collection. But you can demo them all for yourself.

User avatar
Krakatau
KVRAF
5571 posts since 25 May, 2002 from Bobo-dioulasso\BF__Geneva/CH

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:05 pm

yes, among other addons steelpans are great

User avatar
Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
15052 posts since 12 Oct, 2008 from Here and there

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:23 am

After purchasing Pianoteq Pro 6 today (this thread led me to it and I've been avoiding modeled pianos for years), this is my first test after dialing in a sort of muted piano sound and recording a quick sequence.

https://youtu.be/NVwl6TOHBoo

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Krakatau
KVRAF
5571 posts since 25 May, 2002 from Bobo-dioulasso\BF__Geneva/CH

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:14 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:23 am
After purchasing Pianoteq Pro 6 today (this thread led me to it and I've been avoiding modeled pianos for years), this is my first test after dialing in a sort of muted piano sound and recording a quick sequence.

https://youtu.be/NVwl6TOHBoo
as i experienced (with only standard version ,though...) you'll have an enormous potential of totally exotic patches at your disposal, especially related to the acoustic pianos of course, the extrapolations from electric pianos as example are very different from the ones you can have with Lounge Lizard for instance

...and it keeps this typical responsiveness under the keys proper to physical modeling !

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