keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Cinebient
KVRAF
4607 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:46 am

F.e. i really felt so much in love with the Keyscape Upright Wing....i wonder if Pianoteq has similar to offer.
So in theory the pro version could do any imaginable keys/pianos?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EE0k1SyAS8

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Krakatau
KVRAF
5580 posts since 25 May, 2002 from Bobo-dioulasso\BF__Geneva/CH

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:07 am

The only warranty, inherent of both technologies will a way more tweakable and therefore versatile offer of physical modelled pianos, but not necessarily the most realistic sounding ones (yet)...with keyscape, these are indeed multiple samples of real piano sounds !

interesting competition between both technologies, isn't it ?

:D :D :D

Cinebient
KVRAF
4607 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:39 am

Krakatau wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:07 am
The only warranty, inherent of both technologies will a way more tweakable and therefore versatile offer of physical modelled pianos, but not necessarily the most realistic sounding ones (yet)...with keyscape, these are indeed multiple samples of real piano sounds !

interesting competition between both technologies, isn't it ?

:D :D :D
But it could be combined or?
Does not the SWAM string instruments f.e. use a small amount of samples for some things?
But often it is also just the sound of the room and the right mics which adds the organic character which is hard or impossible to recreate with physical modeling.
There is place for both.
F.e. as much as i like Chromaphone, there is nothing which sounds as good and organic like the acoustic belltone keys from Keyscape.
Layering a sampled with a physical modeled key is also great. I like using physical modeling for organic but more unreal sounds while i still prefer real samples for other things.
But it looks like physical modeling does not made really big steps forward in the last years.

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Krakatau
KVRAF
5580 posts since 25 May, 2002 from Bobo-dioulasso\BF__Geneva/CH

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:03 am

Cinebient wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:39 am
But it could be combined or?
does not the SWAM string instruments f.e. use a small amount of samples for some things?
true, ...as hauptwerk does for it pipes organ, both seems to have an intensive use of IRs for instance
Cinebient wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:39 am
often it is also just the sound of the room and the right mics which adds the organic character which is hard or impossible to recreate with physical modeling.
you'll be surprised, the Moddart team made a big deal of recreating microphones placements around pianoteq, with different model of mics (likely as IR themselves)
Cinebient wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:39 am
it is place for both.
undoubtely...

:tu:

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Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
15086 posts since 12 Oct, 2008 from Here and there

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:18 am

For me "realism" is a totally subjective aspect...if I want realism I'll just play and record my old grand piano which has some quirks but sounds beautiful. I produced many samples with prepared piano string sounds, hand-muted sounds and whatnot, but the feature to prepare and tune each string accurately inside Pianoteq is totally fascinating, also with the harp, hand-pan and bell-models.
And realism to us, who work with virtual instruments and synths on a daily basis is a far more important topic than for the average music- and soundtrack consumer who can't notice a difference between a clarinet and an oboe or a trumpet and a french horn and certainly not between a Pianoteq and a sampled or even a real piano.

Cinebient
KVRAF
4607 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:59 am

Mmhhh, you guys convice me to finally buy the pro version soon :x :D
Maybe within the next deal i give up.
I started now again to demo Pianoteq 6 standard and it looks there are a lot improvements (also GUI wise) compared to v5.
I would just love to create my own "weird" keys and indeed Pianoteq 6 looks like it great for some experimental things as well.

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4damind
KVRAF
5006 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:13 am

Pianoteq has still an artificial sound but its great for creative sounds but not if you only need a very natural sounding piano.
The Yamaha C7 in Keyscape sounds amazing.

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fmr
KVRAF
9311 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: keyscape vs modelled counterparts, how does compete the best multisampled instruments ?

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:28 am

4damind wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:13 am
Pianoteq has still an artificial sound but its great for creative sounds but not if you only need a very natural sounding piano.
The Yamaha C7 in Keyscape sounds amazing.
I disagree in what concerns Pianoteq, and I can compare it side by side with a real baby grand (you know, one of those that have hammers and strings) :wink:

To me it is the most realistic VST piano available, and I tested many.

Regarding Keyscape, I can only talk about what I heard when it was launched. I heard a pianist playing the Etude Op. 10 # 12 of Chopin, and it was far from amazing. Actually, the lows sounded completely artificial, thin and lifeless to me. Don't know which piano it was, but it wasn't good.
Fernando (FMR)

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