User error: do you refund?

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
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ATS
KVRAF
6574 posts since 21 Dec, 2002 from MD USA

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:14 am

rasmusklump wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:25 am
Note to myself: Do not use plugins by Youlean and don't support him if he once makes a commercial one.
if it's to yourself why did you post it here?
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Youlean
KVRist
373 posts since 11 May, 2016 from Serbia

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:22 am

rasmusklump wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:25 am
Note to myself: Do not use plugins by Youlean and don't support him if he once makes a commercial one.
Why that?

quikquak
KVRian
674 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:13 am

Youlean wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:22 am
rasmusklump wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:25 am
Note to myself: Do not use plugins by Youlean and don't support him if he once makes a commercial one.
Why that?
What the hell is all that about?

SoftSynthLover99
KVRist
73 posts since 27 Jun, 2019

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:59 am

From a customer point of view, you have consumer rights that allow you a refund in most countries. Such a shame you can return a guitar to a music store within 30 days for a full refund no matter if it’s because you just didn’t like the way it played, but when it comes to software developers some companies make it seem like a crime to ask for a refund.

If you purchase software you are not pleased with, you should be able to return it no problem for whatever reason. It’s actually not even legal to say “all sales final” or “no refunds”.

You can revoke a license pretty easy or deactivate someones license rather easy after a return, so a refund should not be a problem and the user would have no way to continue using the product. Works out for both consumer and developer and nobody loses anything.

SoftSynthLover99
KVRist
73 posts since 27 Jun, 2019

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:06 am

Refunds suck but they are basic human rights and consumer rights. Nobody should have to be stuck with something they don’t want to continue using.

When I see “all sales are final” it usually tells me that who I’m buying from is not really concerned with if I actually like what I’m buying, and/or they are not confident in the product they are selling.

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audiothing
KVRian
1421 posts since 13 Apr, 2011

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:47 am

SoftSynthLover99 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:59 am
You can revoke a license pretty easy or deactivate someones license rather easy after a return, so a refund should not be a problem and the user would have no way to continue using the product. Works out for both consumer and developer and nobody loses anything.
Not true. You can easily revoke a license only if you use challenge/response or a dongle, but you can't revoke a license if the user authorized with a serial or a keyfile.
The only thing you could do is blacklist that user in a future update, but nothing can stop a fraudulent user to keep running their refunded copy.
SoftSynthLover99 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:59 am
If you purchase software you are not pleased with, you should be able to return it no problem for whatever reason. It’s actually not even legal to say “all sales final” or “no refunds”.
Software can't be treated the same way as goods. In fact, in most countries software (or any digital product) is considered a service: you are actually buying a license. You can't really return a license like you would return a t-shirt to a store.
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Lind0n
KVRist
120 posts since 2 Feb, 2005 from UK

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:07 am

audiothing wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:47 am
SoftSynthLover99 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:59 am
If you purchase software you are not pleased with, you should be able to return it no problem for whatever reason. It’s actually not even legal to say “all sales final” or “no refunds”.
Software can't be treated the same way as goods. In fact, in most countries software (or any digital product) is considered a service: you are actually buying a license. You can't really return a license like you would return a t-shirt to a store.
AT is right, in most cases (if the developer has got the EULA correct) you are not actually "buying" the software, you are buying a license to run the software, and the rules about license vs purchases may well be different in different countries. As a developer who uses serial numbers with no calling-home then there is no way I can "easily revoke" the license, so this is a thorny area...
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