BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

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roiikkata
KVRer
1 posts since 8 Nov, 2016

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:58 pm

Hi guys. New to the forums here but long time KVR (unregistered) user.

Wondering; What is the difference between linear DAWs vs loop and or mixer based ones? I've done alot of searching on the web and haven't found a straightforward answer except one that I, myself, have come up with and it's basically that there's just no loops involved in linear editing so everything is more preferred to be played out. Is this correct?

I am a long (long time, actually. 15 going on 20 years now) FL Studio user (not one of those noob yuppies running around out there lol) and recently got into Linux in the past few years and am looking into BitWig, which is linear ..

If my thesis is correct, is there any types of tips for switching over that you guys'd recommend?

THEE most troublesome "woe" I can see right now is how in FL Studio when you change a loop, they ALL change, in the main "arrangement array" (they call it the "playlist. were everything is arranged.) in FL. In LINEAR, you have to go around and make sure you got each and every single one if you want to change them all (i.e. make changes if something doesn't sound right after you've put it all down). Any way around this (i.e. snapshots, save-states, etc.) ?

Any info is MUCH appreciated. Thanks in advance, guys n girls !!

tooneba
KVRian
1317 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:28 pm

Music is all based on loops and patterns. Classical music isn't exception. Anyway, getting onto the main subject, Linear daw's region/clip hold one sequence of midi notes. FL's pattern clip hold more than 1 sequence of midi notes. This is the main difference. So if you want 5 sequence of notes for 5 instruments in linear daw you need at least 5 clips. On the other hand, it doesn't matter in FL.
they ALL change,
It's called alias. You need to "Make unique" to break the linking. Most daw have this function. Live and Bitwig are rare examples.

mouse clicker
Banned
9 posts since 27 Mar, 2020

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:05 pm

tooneba wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:28 pm
Music is all based on loops and patterns. Classical music isn't exception.
What about Jazz?

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antic604
KVRAF
4143 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:10 pm

roiikkata wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:58 pm
THEE most troublesome "woe" I can see right now is how in FL Studio when you change a loop, they ALL change, in the main "arrangement array" (they call it the "playlist. were everything is arranged.) in FL. In LINEAR, you have to go around and make sure you got each and every single one if you want to change them all (i.e. make changes if something doesn't sound right after you've put it all down). Any way around this (i.e. snapshots, save-states, etc.)?
This is probably the biggest issue I have with Bitwig :tu:

BUT, that's not the difference between linear and loop-oriented, though. Most linear DAWs (Cubase, Reaper, Logic, Studio One, etc.) have this workflow of so-called ghost / alias / linked clips.

Loop-based workflow involves having a time-agnostic clip launcher matrix, that you can leverage for live performance or while toying with arrangement ideas using a controller like Push or Launchpad. FL also has this (performance mode, I believe).

Perhaps look at this - it's an old review of Bitwig's early version but it's probably the most concise, complete & short discussion of what Bitwig is and what makes it special. This video made me buy it & abandon Live:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0cEybK76Gk

Also, just type "Bitwig clip launcher" into Youtube's search bar :)

And lastly, if FL works for you and you've been using it for 15+ years, then perhaps don't switch? What is it about Bitwig that made you interested in it?
Last edited by antic604 on Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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antic604
KVRAF
4143 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:13 pm

mouse clicker wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:05 pm
tooneba wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:28 pm
Music is all based on loops and patterns. Classical music isn't exception.
What about Jazz?
What about it? Unless the instrument plays a solo they otherwise play & transpose loops. That's actually how you make a solo stand out - have other parts "droning" the same thing over & over in the background. Obviously it's not the same loops all the time, but that's also the case in good electronic / techno music.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

xbitz
KVRAF
2682 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:52 pm

antic604 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:10 pm
roiikkata wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:58 pm
THEE most troublesome "woe" I can see right now is how in FL Studio when you change a loop, they ALL change, in the main "arrangement array" (they call it the "playlist. were everything is arranged.) in FL. In LINEAR, you have to go around and make sure you got each and every single one if you want to change them all (i.e. make changes if something doesn't sound right after you've put it all down). Any way around this (i.e. snapshots, save-states, etc.)?
This is probably the biggest issue I have with Bitwig :tu:

BUT, that's not the difference between linear and loop-oriented, though. Most linear DAWs (Cubase, Reaper, Logic, Studio One, etc.) have this workflow of so-called ghost / alias / linked clips.

...
that's ok but there is no multi-clip editing( https://www.synapticsound.com/fl-studio-ghost-notes/ ) between playlist pattern clips in FL so the whole feature is limited, can be used only in the channel rack

it can't be done in FL
Image
Last edited by xbitz on Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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antic604
KVRAF
4143 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:56 pm

xbitz wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:52 pm
that's ok but there is no multi-clip editing( https://www.synapticsound.com/fl-studio-ghost-notes/ ) between playlist pattern clips in FL so the whole feature is limited, can be used only in the channel rack
What are you disagreeing on again? I've not referred to FL in that and "ghost notes" in FL has nothing to do with linked/alias clips functionality, although they're often confused.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

xbitz
KVRAF
2682 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:00 pm

I'm saying there is no ghost-editing(multi-clip editing) between different pattern clips(ghosted clips) ... check the pics above it can't be done in FL ( "Ghost channels across patterns" feature is missing)

been requested a couple of times, https://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=57264
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

mouse clicker
Banned
9 posts since 27 Mar, 2020

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:48 pm

antic604 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:13 pm
mouse clicker wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:05 pm
tooneba wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:28 pm
Music is all based on loops and patterns. Classical music isn't exception.
What about Jazz?
What about it? Unless the instrument plays a solo they otherwise play & transpose loops. That's actually how you make a solo stand out - have other parts "droning" the same thing over & over in the background. Obviously it's not the same loops all the time, but that's also the case in good electronic / techno music.
Wrong, Jazz imparts a lot of improve and playing off each other. You really should try to understand the interworkings of Jazz, it can be quite an educational experience on a larger scale of musical theory.

tooneba
KVRian
1317 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:37 pm

mouse clicker wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:05 pm
tooneba wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:28 pm
Music is all based on loops and patterns. Classical music isn't exception.
What about Jazz?
You got a new account already? jeez

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antic604
KVRAF
4143 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:44 pm

mouse clicker wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:48 pm
Wrong, Jazz imparts a lot of improve and playing off each other. You really should try to understand the interworkings of Jazz, it can be quite an educational experience on a larger scale of musical theory.
I never said it doesn't. Just that a lot of it is still loop-based, or perhaps to use a less controversial terms: riff-, sequence-, motiff-, hook- based.

If jazz (or any music, really) didn't have any repeating elements and each note & sequence would be unique, you probably wouldn't be able to remember any of it.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Trancit
KVRAF
2642 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:09 am

I am pretty sure the OP isn´t very interested in your silly discussion about Jazz...

About the main difference between FL Studio vs. others:

Every other DAW is TRACK BASED which isn´t the case for FL Studio which is called PATTERN BASED...

This means in a "normal" or "linear" DAW if you want to do something you first have to create a track... instrument track, audio track, hybrid track or like in Reaper just a track... 8) ... and every editing you do is based just on this track, which has a fixed mixer track for any audio it produces...

In FL Studio instead of having to create a track, you insert generators to produce sound or automation...
There are 3 different kind of generators in FL Studio... Instrument, Audio and Automation generators... Instrument generators hold their trigger data in Patterns, which easily can combine the trigger notes for hundreds of instruments which otoh can be routed to any mixer track you like, while patterns, audio clips and automation clips can be freely arranged in the Playlist to your liking...

This are the main differences (freedoms) in FL Studio to be able to freely hold midi data of any instrument generator in one or multiple Patterns while being able to route them to any mixer channel and arrange them freely on any Playlist track as you like...

These are the main problems of FL Studio at the same time... being able to do that means otoh the need to do all that all the time...
While in a normal DAW a track holds everything neatly together without having to do much else you have mostly 3 times (sometimes much more) the work in FL Studio for achieving the same tasks because the programm is basically divided into 3 independent parts...
The Channel Rack which holds every generator...
The Mixer where every audio is routed to...
The Playlist where you arrange your song...

IL tries to implement workarounds to simulate a similar workflow of normal DAWs but because of it´s nature it´s quite difficult...

PeterP_swe
KVRist
93 posts since 13 Aug, 2017 from Gothenburg

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:24 am

I think of it like a tape machine versus a looper pedal.

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antic604
KVRAF
4143 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:25 am

Trancit wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:09 am
Every other DAW is TRACK BASED which isn´t the case for FL Studio which is called PATTERN BASED...
:tu:
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

xbitz
KVRAF
2682 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

Post Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:56 am

^^^ Reason supports both methods
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDHgDRB_TNQ
+ blocks ... but it would be another story ... :D anyway so there are some hybrid solution too (for ex. Beat Designer in Cubase also pattern-based or the matrix in cakewalk/sonar)
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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