What do you like vs don't like about snapping in Waveform?

Discussion about: tracktion.com
FigBug
KVRist
459 posts since 3 May, 2005 from Victoria, BC

Post Sat May 23, 2020 2:22 pm

What do you like vs don't like about snapping in Waveform? What should we change vs what should we leave as it is?

Just doing a bit of research for upcoming changes. I mostly work on the MIDI editor but this will apply to clips as well.

My biggest annoyance is resizing MIDI clips changes the length in multiples for the snap instead of snapping them to the grid. Does anybody actually like this how it is?

Who wants to be able to set the snap instead of having it tied to the zoom? Should MIDI editor and Arrange window have their own snap setting or share?

Will allow listen to other complaints about the MIDI editor now, no guarantees I'll get to them all.

fde101
KVRist
235 posts since 16 Mar, 2017

Re: What do you like vs don't like about snapping in Waveform?

Post Sat May 23, 2020 4:44 pm

Looking at Ableton Live as an example, it has options for an "adaptive grid" which adapts to the zoom level and to how much fits on the screen, or a "fixed grid" which can be set to 1/4 notes, 1/8 notes, etc. Snapping is to the grid.

In other words, it provides both options an the user can select which is best for what they are doing at that time.


Reason offers options to snap to the grid or to snap to the bar, 1/2 notes, 1/4 notes, etc. It also offers both absolute and relative snapping modes - in relative mode, it snaps at offsets relative to the current position of the note, so if it starts a bit off the beat, it will snap to positions which are equally off the beat.

Cubase gives a nice assortment of options: there is a drop-down for the quantization setting (1/16 notes, 1/8th notes, etc.), and the grid can be set to either adjust to the zoom level or to use the quantization setting. For snapping you can choose to snap to the grid, to "grid relative", to events, shuffle, cursor, grid + cursor, events + cursor, or grid + events + cursor.

Studio One gives the option to snap adaptive, bar, quantize or frames, and checkbox menu items for snapping to cursor & loop, events, grid and relative grid.

Logic Pro X similarly offers "Smart", Bar, Beat, Division, Ticks, Frames, whole notes, half notes, etc., and gives options for absolute or relative snapping.


Seeing a pattern?

User avatar
astey
KVRist
107 posts since 9 Feb, 2017

Re: What do you like vs don't like about snapping in Waveform?

Post Sat May 23, 2020 5:32 pm

I’m new to WF - 2 weeks in, worked with oder daws before. Snap works kind of expected up until this point. I like that i can activate/disable it globally while dragging.

Ideas:
- Adaptive grid depending on the zoom like Bitwig is fast and handy.
- live quantize to shift selected items in real time via slider pre and post snap grid (Like Reaper). So you can „feel“ the groove before committing to it.
- the groove grid is reflected visually by extra lines or varying distances is. Just to display things in an obvious way and users know where to snap.

Improvement for snap editing:
- a quantize hotkey which locks selected items to the currently visible grid.-
- humanize like studio one to generate a small randomized offset


Midi editor complaint:
- Midi editor is missing hid commands such as right click scrolling, horizontal scrolling. It falls out of line completely with the overall navigation concept of the rest of the app. Windows 10 desktop.
- selecting tool stalls on high resolution displays, even stronger than in the main window.
- BR: cant apply same note length twice in a row (on different notes). I must select a different note length in between every time.
- Missing modifier to grab & move tiny notes(maybe I haven’t found this one yet)

Cheers

fde101
KVRist
235 posts since 16 Mar, 2017

Re: What do you like vs don't like about snapping in Waveform?

Post Sat May 23, 2020 6:11 pm

astey wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:32 pm
- humanize like studio one to generate a small randomized offset
Try one of the random options under groove and keep the strength low.

astey wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:32 pm
- Midi editor is missing hid commands such as right click scrolling, horizontal scrolling.
There is another thread where this is being discussed; impacts Mac users too unless they use a trackpad or wacom tablet (maybe a magic mouse?). This should really be treated as a bug and fixed.

FigBug
KVRist
459 posts since 3 May, 2005 from Victoria, BC

Re: What do you like vs don't like about snapping in Waveform?

Post Sat May 23, 2020 7:09 pm

fde101 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:11 pm
astey wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:32 pm
astey wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:32 pm
- Midi editor is missing hid commands such as right click scrolling, horizontal scrolling.
There is another thread where this is being discussed; impacts Mac users too unless they use a trackpad or wacom tablet (maybe a magic mouse?). This should really be treated as a bug and fixed.
Not sure what you mean by 'hid commands'. I'm a track pad user, so not really sure what people expect from right click scroll. Can you link to the thread, I don't see it on a quick scan of the forum.

terrynoakes
KVRist
423 posts since 7 May, 2007 from Angus,Scotland

Re: What do you like vs don't like about snapping in Waveform?

Post Sat May 23, 2020 11:13 pm

Not quite what your asking but:

Randomise note positions option, something similar to the randomise velocity tool.

Short cut for actions bar to select all notes with the same pitch.

End song Marker. To stop transport at the end of song.
Maybe somehow using absolute time marker

User avatar
astey
KVRist
107 posts since 9 Feb, 2017

Re: What do you like vs don't like about snapping in Waveform?

Post Sun May 24, 2020 2:15 am

FigBug wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:09 pm
fde101 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:11 pm
astey wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:32 pm
astey wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:32 pm
- Midi editor is missing hid commands such as right click scrolling, horizontal scrolling.
There is another thread where this is being discussed; impacts Mac users too unless they use a trackpad or wacom tablet (maybe a magic mouse?). This should really be treated as a bug and fixed.
Not sure what you mean by 'hid commands'. I'm a track pad user, so not really sure what people expect from right click scroll. Can you link to the thread, I don't see it on a quick scan of the forum.
Hi FigBug,
here is a thread were people discussing about the midi editor: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=544991
Summary: The commands which let you navigate in the main canvas won't work in midi editor.
Examples:
  • Right click, which can shift the whole project by clicking and dragging. Within midi editor however, it provides the identical selecting tool/lasso than left click.
  • The scroll wheel becomes occupied by vertical scrolling within the editor and there is no modifier (option/alt) to navigate horizontally.

selecting tool stalls on high resolution displays, even stronger than in the main window.
Here is a demo regarding the user experience of Waveform's graphics performance in the midi editor.
astey wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:11 am
I made a video running W11 in a very small window compared to QHD fullscreen. I use the cursor lasso in a circular motion to demonstrate that W11 can't keep up at all on fullscreen. This video is the third take. On the first take W11 even crashed without log. Strange. Dropbox link:https://www.dropbox.com/s/1g22zkm534ms3 ... s.mp4?dl=0
(Side Note: GUI performance comparison of W11 to 4 popular DAWs: Zendesk: 28453)
Hi fde101,
fde101 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:11 pm
astey wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:32 pm
- humanize like studio one to generate a small randomized offset
Try one of the random options under groove and keep the strength low.
Nice ! Thanks!
I checked it out and it goes into the right direction, but its not truly random. Notes played simultaneously remain simultaneous. Humans would play small flams though.


Cheers

fde101
KVRist
235 posts since 16 Mar, 2017

Re: What do you like vs don't like about snapping in Waveform?

Post Sun May 24, 2020 10:53 am

FigBug wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:09 pm
Not sure what you mean by 'hid commands'.
HID = human interface device. It's a term I believe Microsoft coined to refer to devices that the user uses directly to provide input to the computer - keyboards, mice, trackpads, etc.

User avatar
Stuttaton
KVRist
445 posts since 24 Jan, 2004 from Sweden

Re: What do you like vs don't like about snapping in Waveform?

Post Mon May 25, 2020 7:40 am

The thing I miss most in the midi editor is a horisontal and vertical constrain key. So when you move a note or selection, it will move only horisontally or vertically when you hold for instance the shift key while dragging with the mouse.
Snapping should always be to the grid, in my opinion. I like the current system where the grid changes with the zoom level.

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