Other than inversion nomenclature

[msf sadib]

So in triads there's root position (1-3-5) 1st inversion (3-5-1) & 2nd inversion (5-1-3).But what if I arrange it like (5-3-1) or (1-5-3) or (3-1-5); what that be called voicing or something like that? Or maybe there's other naming system for that which I'm not aware of.Let me know!

[jancivil]

The standard depiction of inversions figures the bass like so:
Root position is 5/3 (self-explanatory); 1st inversion is 6/3, eg., F A D, 3rd and 6th from bass F; 2nd inversion is 6/4, eg., G C E, 4th and 6th from bass G. Then we can figure chord of the seventh: 1st inversion is called the 6/5 chord, abbreviated from 6/5/3, eg., F A C D; 2nd inversion is called the 4/3 chord, abbreviated from 6/4/3, eg., G B C E; 3rd inversion is called 4/2 or the 2 chord, abbreviated from 6/4/2, eg., F G B D.

[jancivil]

Typically, 6/4 is cadential I 6/4 to V, ie., G C E to G B D. Here we see the specific value of figured bass, as opposed to more novel analysis methods: before musical thought was all about chords in blocks, harmony was the result of concordance of lines; so voice leading is revealed, eg., 6/4 moves to 5/3 here.

First inversion, say on the ii, eg., F A D (in C) shows ii in a subdominant role.

Third inversion typically looks like F G B D to E G C (C), ie., resolving a V4/2 to I6.

[jancivil]

Chord of the ninth may be figured as well. Fourth inversion occurs in Schoenberg *Verklarte Nacht*, notoriously. Originally a group refused to do it because ‘there’s no such thing as 9th in the bass’.

11th chord, et al kinda not worth fugging with.

[lobanov]

So in triads there's root position (1-3-5) 1st inversion (3-5-1) & 2nd inversion (5-1-3). But what if I arrange it like (5-3-1) or (1-5-3) or (3-1-5); what that be called voicing or something like that? Or maybe there's other naming system for that which I'm not aware of.Let me know!

We have to distinguish a root note and a bass voice. Sometimes they are identical (if a chord is in its root position), sometimes they aren't (in first, second etc. inversion).

The term "inversion" describes a chord by its bass note only. The lowest note. How the rest of its voices are positioned isn't important. It's the same position/inversion.

So 5-1-3 and 5-3-1 are both in second inversion.

And yes, they are different voicings of the same chord.

[jancivil]

The question regards inversions, though, doesn’t it.

So, the same notes are still the same notes regardless of octave position?
WHO KNEW

BTFW, spacing tends to be of quite some importance in arranging or orchestration.

[lobanov]

The concept of voicings is more complex and elaborated. As jancivil said, spacing is important in arranging and orchestration. But it's possible to double voices, avoid them (in triads it's usually fifth). Voicings are important in relation to a melodic position of a chord, that is the highest note. 5-3-1 and 5-1-3 sound differently because of their highest notes and their spacing.

[msf sadib]

The question regards inversions, though, doesn’t it.

So, the same notes are still the same notes regardless of octave position?
WHO KNEW

BTFW, spacing tends to be of quite some importance in arranging or orchestration.

Yes all notes are same regardless of octave position

[msf sadib]

The standard depiction of inversions figures the bass like so:
Root position is 5/3 (self-explanatory); 1st inversion is 6/3, eg., F A D, 3rd and 6th from bass F; 2nd inversion is 6/4, eg., G C E, 4th and 6th from bass G. Then we can figure chord of the seventh: 1st inversion is called the 6/5 chord, abbreviated from 6/5/3, eg., F A C D; 2nd inversion is called the 4/3 chord, abbreviated from 6/4/3, eg., G B C E; 3rd inversion is called 4/2 or the 2 chord, abbreviated from 6/4/2, eg., F G B D.

I'm not understanding 6/4 or 5/3 here.what are they signifying actually?

[lobanov]

The standard depiction of inversions figures the bass like so:
Root position is 5/3 (self-explanatory); 1st inversion is 6/3, eg., F A D, 3rd and 6th from bass F; 2nd inversion is 6/4, eg., G C E, 4th and 6th from bass G. Then we can figure chord of the seventh: 1st inversion is called the 6/5 chord, abbreviated from 6/5/3, eg., F A C D; 2nd inversion is called the 4/3 chord, abbreviated from 6/4/3, eg., G B C E; 3rd inversion is called 4/2 or the 2 chord, abbreviated from 6/4/2, eg., F G B D.

I'm not understanding 6/4 or 5/3 here.what are they signifying actually?

We start from the bass (not from the root) of a chord. Bass note changes in every position/inversion, root note doesn't.
"3" means a third (major or minor, both are possible) from the bass.
"5" means a fifth.
"6" means a sixth (major or minor).
There are different ways of notation. "C" for a triad in root position, "C6" for first inversion, "C64" for second inversion. (You may replace "C" by any root).
It seems a bit confusing at first but it works.

[lobanov]

The slash doesn't mean a mathematical operation. In a printed or written text superscripts and subscripts are used.

[BertKoor]

There are different ways of notation.
[...]
"C6" for first inversion [...]
It seems a bit confusing at first but it works.

This is VERY confusing. I mean, just look at this:

Code: Select all

|  C      | C7    | C6    |

How is the reader supposed to know whether to add the sixth or play an inversion?

Once voicing becomes important to you, it's time to switch from chord abbreviations to proper staff notation. You're no longer sketching it out roughly and let the little details be handled by whoever is going to play it.

[msf sadib]

The standard depiction of inversions figures the bass like so:
Root position is 5/3 (self-explanatory); 1st inversion is 6/3, eg., F A D, 3rd and 6th from bass F; 2nd inversion is 6/4, eg., G C E, 4th and 6th from bass G. Then we can figure chord of the seventh: 1st inversion is called the 6/5 chord, abbreviated from 6/5/3, eg., F A C D; 2nd inversion is called the 4/3 chord, abbreviated from 6/4/3, eg., G B C E; 3rd inversion is called 4/2 or the 2 chord, abbreviated from 6/4/2, eg., F G B D.

I'm not understanding 6/4 or 5/3 here.what are they signifying actually?

We start from the bass (not from the root) of a chord. Bass note changes in every position/inversion, root note doesn't.
"3" means a third (major or minor, both are possible) from the bass.
"5" means a fifth.
"6" means a sixth (major or minor).
There are different ways of notation. "C" for a triad in root position, "C6" for first inversion, "C64" for second inversion. (You may replace "C" by any root).
It seems a bit confusing at first but it works.

So,5/3 means 3rd on the bass.so it's 1st inversion? But what's with C6 to be called a first inversion? I mean C triads don't have maj or min 6th.So what's the deal with that?

[NERF_PROTOSS]

in a modern context C6 almost always means an added sixth chord, like C E G A. in the same sort of vein as C7, or Cm7, Cmaj7, where the chord symbol is about quickly telling you what notes are in the chord.

if chords are notated in a figured bass style the 6 is really shorthand for 6/3, like: E is in the bass, G is a 3rd above E, C is a 6th above E. the 3 isn't written down because it's redundant (root position has a 3rd above the bass, and second inversion we specify it's a 4th).

the surrounding context will tell you whether it's figured bass or not, but the thing is it doesn't really exist anywhere except classical harmony textbooks, since the one (and only) thing it's good at is describing inversions in roman numeral analysis.

anyway, like lobanov says the specific inversion doesn't tell you anything about the octave or the doubling of those notes above the bass. you could play G a tenth above E, you could double the root, whatever, it's still first inversion.

[msf sadib]

in a modern context C6 almost always means an added sixth chord, like C E G A. in the same sort of vein as C7, or Cm7, Cmaj7, where the chord symbol is about quickly telling you what notes are in the chord.

if chords are notated in a figured bass style the 6 is really shorthand for 6/3, like: E is in the bass, G is a 3rd above E, C is a 6th above E. the 3 isn't written down because it's redundant (root position has a 3rd above the bass, and second inversion we specify it's a 4th).

the surrounding context will tell you whether it's figured bass or not, but the thing is it doesn't really exist anywhere except classical harmony textbooks, since the one (and only) thing it's good at is describing inversions in roman numeral analysis.

anyway, like lobanov says the specific inversion doesn't tell you anything about the octave or the doubling of those notes above the bass. you could play G a tenth above E, you could double the root, whatever, it's still first inversion.

So let me get this straight & clear.if it's 1st inversion of C major I write C6/3 or C6 because E is on the bass & interval between E & C is notes apart? so for 2nd inversion I would write like C4/6 or C4 because the distance between G and C is 4 notes apart? or the 2nd inversion should be written as C6/4? how do I know which to write C6/4 or C4/6