All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

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lfm
KVRAF
5329 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:23 am

That Avid are not able to keep customers and $99 a year perpetual license as it was when I trialed Protools - is a bit strange, I think.(excluding their software bundle I think it was which was another $99 annually).

Having to do 25% off on that in campaign is a sign they are not doing well.

Or is it just subscription model that is not doing so well?

Shares at Nasdaq seems to go between $5-$8 just about, and that was the case years ago as well.

They had other campaigns like 2 years support/updates for price of one.
But they could not say how long windows 7 would be supported, if even those two years. So another vote against.

I started doing video 3 years ago, and found PT not straight up supporting the normal formats, like MP4 with H264 inside, but Avid's own I never heard of, as I recall. So never really felt attracted.

I also have a PT Express 10.3.x license that came with hardware, that when running it found serious bugs like - metronome were not latency compensated, not even for ASIO interface. Avid acknowledged but said they would not fix it - also tells a story about that company.

I looked at Waves Surround plugins and those needed ProTools HD even - not a good sign not native PT fix that.

Are PT 1st used widely today, or are schools not even into this software?

There are loads of excellent daws out there, so maybe even schools dropped it.

So PT near extinction?

How about Media Composer and Sibelius are they doing well?

pc2000
KVRist
346 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:14 am

You probably have to look at PT from at least two different perspectives. You have the perspective of pros still using it as a standard for mixing records. Then there's the home studio consumer aspect. PT, has become more expensive to use and really has no advantage over other Daw's. Avid has made the mistake of raising prices of PT standard by $100 compared to the previous pricing. Companies are pushing these subs, so they jack the prices to make subs look more attractive. PT first is a toy and the standard version has less features than some entry level Daw's. ( Incomplete statement)

apoclypse
KVRist
315 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:04 am

On a consumer level PT is imo not worth it. It's easily beat by pretty much any other modern DAW in the market. Heck, even that new one Luna looks more capable and that's brand new.

Where PT shines is in a studio with PT hardware, HDX, etc. Big consoles. It's an extremely stable and mature platform for the most part, but only as long as you are part of the ecosystem to begin with. If you are mixing in large format mixing boards, or large amounts of recording sources at the same time (think orchestras) PT is really good at that kind of thing as long as you have the PT hardware to back it up.

The problem AVID has is that for the most part I've seen people walk into a studio plug in their own laptop withs Ableton or whatever (usually Ableton though) and record whatever they need (instruments, vocals etc) directly to the laptop with very little issues.
Studio One 4.6 // Bitwig 3.0.3 // Logic Pro X 10.5 // Ableton 10 // Reason 9.5 // MPC // Force

User avatar
Proteinshake
KVRian
605 posts since 26 Nov, 2010

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:13 am

Shitty management decisions have been the death nail to many other companies. I'm actually suprised AVID is still around at all.

Psuper
KVRist
455 posts since 3 May, 2018

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:38 am

Pro Tools went the way of Waves: far too expensive for far too long, now offering little additional value except for nostalgia with their brand.
Cubase has won the Prize! And Reason Rack is is invited to the party again! :party:
...I now need nothing but more hours in a day.

fuzzlightyear
Banned
97 posts since 15 May, 2020

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:51 am

lfm wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:23 am
That Avid are not able to keep customers and $99 a year perpetual license as it was when I trialed Protools - is a bit strange, I think.(excluding their software bundle I think it was which was another $99 annually).

Having to do 25% off on that in campaign is a sign they are not doing well.

Or is it just subscription model that is not doing so well?

Shares at Nasdaq seems to go between $5-$8 just about, and that was the case years ago as well.

They had other campaigns like 2 years support/updates for price of one.
But they could not say how long windows 7 would be supported, if even those two years. So another vote against.

I started doing video 3 years ago, and found PT not straight up supporting the normal formats, like MP4 with H264 inside, but Avid's own I never heard of, as I recall. So never really felt attracted.

I also have a PT Express 10.3.x license that came with hardware, that when running it found serious bugs like - metronome were not latency compensated, not even for ASIO interface. Avid acknowledged but said they would not fix it - also tells a story about that company.

I looked at Waves Surround plugins and those needed ProTools HD even - not a good sign not native PT fix that.

Are PT 1st used widely today, or are schools not even into this software?

There are loads of excellent daws out there, so maybe even schools dropped it.

So PT near extinction?

How about Media Composer and Sibelius are they doing well?
A big employer of the "industry standard" are big studios and teaching institutions, both of which use mainly Protools and have been hit drastically by the social distancing guidelines. I'm sure there was an uptick in home studios too, which probably resulted in other DAWs being purchased rather then the "industry standard". There are just so many choices these days that the industry has changed.
When people move the goal posts to make a point, there is no longer an original point to be made.

Kazi7
KVRist
153 posts since 15 Apr, 2020

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:56 am

apoclypse wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:04 am
...

Where PT shines is in a studio with PT hardware, HDX, etc. Big consoles. It's an extremely stable and mature platform for the most part, but only as long as you are part of the ecosystem to begin with. If you are mixing in large format mixing boards, or large amounts of recording sources at the same time (think orchestras) PT is really good at that kind of thing as long as you have the PT hardware to back it up.

...
Cubase is at least as stable as PT and doesn't require a specific ecosystem to work properly. And many use Logic for the same professional applications. There is really no justification for using PT anymore. Sure, I get it that it has been shoved into hands of students at professional audio engineering colleges (SAE and their many copycats) since the 1990s as "the industry standard", but it's really a mediocre product with typical American design flaws, that you won't see in software that was desgined by pedantic and compulsively orderly Germans (Logic, Cubase, Ableton to name a few).

Sure, I understand if an oldschool engineer like Dave Pensado does not want to change his usual ways any more, since he already went to the transition from analog to Pro Tools, but how younger engineers still put up with an inferior software like PT is really beyond me.
sfzinstruments on GitHub - the place for free SFZ format sample libraries & mappings. SFZ mappings thread here on KVR

newluc
KVRist
126 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Italy

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:01 am

Agree with Kazi7

Cubase and Pro Tools here, no story.

lfm
KVRAF
5329 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:24 am

Kazi7 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:56 am

Cubase is at least as stable as PT and doesn't require a specific ecosystem to work properly.
I abandoned Cubase Pro at 9.5 , I had too, could not use for recording anymore.
Every hour uptime of windows, +2s, some kind of event in computer makes Cubase Pro audio engine to restart so if recording then it stops and pops a error message.

Steinberg showed no interest to solve it. I spent 3 weeks to run all kinds of auditing and troubleshooting tools to narrow down. Had ProcessExlorer with every running process on screen and filmed with camera to be sure to see what happends - but no trace what kind of event this is.

I bought tools to load down all 8 cores to 100% while doing normal recording - no problem as long as this event did not turn up. So audio engine is well built, it seems, but is listening to some callback and does not differentiate between some kind of events and thinks audio engine must be restared.

No other daw in same computer had this problem, not StudioOne, not Reaper, not Cakewalk or even older Sonar 2015. Not even an old Cubase Elements 7 and 8 had this problem.

Only Cubase Pro 8.0, 8.5, 9.0 and 9.5 - all restart audio engine completely so audio engine restart completely and recording was aborted with a dialog. I just cannot work like that "is uptime on computer close to the hour now, and should I wait a little bit?"

Currently Cakewalk is main daw - not issues with anything.

Cinebient
KVRAF
4825 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:21 am

Pro Tools? Sounds like something from the past :)

scalawag
KVRian
649 posts since 3 May, 2004

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:14 am

Being on Nasdaq says it all...
Pro Tools | First is a joke. You have to buy the plugins on their Market Place, even if you already own a license of those plugins.

TS-12
KVRist
330 posts since 24 Apr, 2008 from USA

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:21 pm

lfm wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:24 am
Kazi7 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:56 am

Cubase is at least as stable as PT and doesn't require a specific ecosystem to work properly.
I abandoned Cubase Pro at 9.5 , I had too, could not use for recording anymore.
Every hour uptime of windows, +2s, some kind of event in computer makes Cubase Pro audio engine to restart so if recording then it stops and pops a error message.

Steinberg showed no interest to solve it. I spent 3 weeks to run all kinds of auditing and troubleshooting tools to narrow down. Had ProcessExlorer with every running process on screen and filmed with camera to be sure to see what happends - but no trace what kind of event this is.

I bought tools to load down all 8 cores to 100% while doing normal recording - no problem as long as this event did not turn up. So audio engine is well built, it seems, but is listening to some callback and does not differentiate between some kind of events and thinks audio engine must be restared.

No other daw in same computer had this problem, not StudioOne, not Reaper, not Cakewalk or even older Sonar 2015. Not even an old Cubase Elements 7 and 8 had this problem.

Only Cubase Pro 8.0, 8.5, 9.0 and 9.5 - all restart audio engine completely so audio engine restart completely and recording was aborted with a dialog. I just cannot work like that "is uptime on computer close to the hour now, and should I wait a little bit?"

Currently Cakewalk is main daw - not issues with anything.
I’ve been cubase user since the early 2000s, but recent cubase versions including v10 are beey buggy and steinberg support is useless. I’m currently on windows but thinking of going Mac for Logic or Reaper.
win10 x64. cubase 10 x64.
gigabyte z390 gaming x,i7-8700k, 32GB, 4TB nvme SSD

scalawag
KVRian
649 posts since 3 May, 2004

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:58 am

scalawag wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:14 am
Being on Nasdaq says it all...
Pro Tools | First is a joke. You have to buy the plugins on their Market Place, even if you already own a license of those plugins.
Reaper is stable on both Mac and PC.

User avatar
krabbencutter
KVRian
595 posts since 12 Jul, 2013

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:07 am

Now before we all start naming our favorite DAW of choice, I recommend this article from PTE
https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-p ... -my-advice
It explains pretty well imo what the term "industry standard" means.

Although the article is 3 years old now, you can still pretty much bet that Pro Tools is still used on nearly every Grammy nominated record and Oscar nominated movie.
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.

chk071
KVRAF
24686 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: All ads Avid Protools - seems people abandon "industry standard"

Post Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:11 am

DRAMA!!!
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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