Using Linnstrument as master controller questions (Deluge, Hydrasynth, AE Modular)

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sleep.totem
KVRer
14 posts since 10 Feb, 2020

Post Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:44 am

So this might be a bit convoluted.
Im currently using my linn to control my gear. The signal flow is as follows:

Linn (USB) => Deluge (Midi thru) => Hydrasynth (Midi thru) => AE modular (consumes midi channel 1)

Im using usb so the deluge can power the linnstrument as well as send back midi clock.
Now my big question is:

Using the linn's mpe mode to control the hydrasynth (which supports mpe), how should I configure it?
Im currently using channel 1 for the AE modular, and the default mpe mode of the linn for the hydra which consumes (from my understanding) channels 2 to 8. That would leave channels 9 to 16 free to be used for whatever else I want.

The main issue im having is with the hydrasynth which seems to be responding to all midi channel messages from 2 to 16 and im not sure if theres a way to set the hydra to consume only from specific channels.
If anyone has any experience with trying to do a similar setup please let me know.

invisible_touch
KVRer
5 posts since 20 Aug, 2020

Post Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:20 am

I have no experience with the Hydrasynth, so I don't know the limits of its MPE configuration.

I use a MIDI Solutions Router (http://www.midisolutions.com/prodrte.htm) to route MIDI channels to specific outputs because my Audiothingies Micromonsta has a similar issue.

While there are a number of hardware MPE synths on the market now, it doesn't seem like many of them are designed with the assumption they'll be used with other synthesizers, especially other MPE synthesizers.

LarsDaniel
KVRist
129 posts since 9 Sep, 2019 from Denmark

Post Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:15 pm

I had sort of the same problem, and I assumed that Hydrasynth just recieved on all chennels in mpe mode. But you just need to send it the mpe config message from Linnstrument. (I am not at my Linny, but I think in per-split setup, you hold the pad that is far left, second from top row. )
This way I have set my Hydrasynth to be only on 9-16, so 1-8 is free for other things.

invisible_touch
KVRer
5 posts since 20 Aug, 2020

Post Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:52 am

I believe @sleep.totem's problem is that the Hydrasynth is responding to messages on Channel 1, which is intended only for their AE modular. They'll need a way to keep their Hydrasynth from responding to MIDI channel 1, or, using another bit of gear to split the MIDI channels into two different paths, with one path filtered to only contain MIDI channels 2-16 for their Hydrasynth and the other path filtered to only MIDI channel 1 for their AE modular.

I had to do the same thing to use my Micromonsta and my DSI Tetra. The Micromonsta responds to all 16 MIDI channels, there is no way to specify which channels it listens to while in MPE mode. If I want 4 MIDI channels for my Tetra, I need two paths, one filtered to only contain the channels I want for my Micromonsta (1-9), and another path for my Tetra. The Tetra doesn't have a proper MPE mode, but if I build a 4 timbre combo with identical patches for each it can perform as an MPE synth (editing is a pain in the arse, of course) and I can specify which MIDI channels it responds to.

LarsDaniel
KVRist
129 posts since 9 Sep, 2019 from Denmark

Post Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:15 pm

Yes, exactly. And that is why he needs to send the MPE config message from Linnstrument to Hydrasynth. Hydrasynth will respond by using only 1-8 or 9-16. This is not visible in any way on the Hydrasynth, but it actually works.

John the Savage
KVRist
486 posts since 28 Mar, 2017

Post Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:16 pm

Hold up. Are you saying that the Hydrasynth will respond to a MIDI Remote Activation message (RPN 6) and automatically restrict which channels it's listening to, as per the state of the controller?

Are you absolutely sure about this? Sufficed to say, and perhaps I'm just jaded, but I'm a little skeptical. You wouldn't tease a guy, would you? :wink:

That said, it would still be better if we could do this manually on the synth, and specify the channel range ourselves.

Cheers!

LarsDaniel
KVRist
129 posts since 9 Sep, 2019 from Denmark

Post Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:53 am

John the Savage wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:16 pm
Hold up. Are you saying that the Hydrasynth will respond to a MIDI Remote Activation message (RPN 6) and automatically restrict which channels it's listening to, as per the state of the controller?

Are you absolutely sure about this? Sufficed to say, and perhaps I'm just jaded, but I'm a little skeptical. You wouldn't tease a guy, would you? :wink:

That said, it would still be better if we could do this manually on the synth, and specify the channel range ourselves.

Cheers!
That is indeed what I am saying. ASM makes no mention of this, but it is working fine. My setup is linny into Hydrasynth. Thru from HS to all other stuff (modular).
So lower split is used as a controller for non-HS and non-mpe things on ch 1-8 (goes straight thru HS), and upper split is controlling HS on 9-16.

I promise, I am not making this up. 😊

invisible_touch
KVRer
5 posts since 20 Aug, 2020

Post Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:55 am

Undocumented synth features for the win! I perused the HydraSynth manual and they made very little mention of their MPE integration at all.

Sounds like if @sleep.totem wants to continue to use MIDI channel 1 for their modular, they'll need to do the same maneuver.

mrspiral
KVRist
129 posts since 10 May, 2018

Post Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:13 am

How would someone send an RPN 6 under these circumstances? Can the LS do it directly?
Mike Metlay, PhD (nuclear physics -- no, seriously!) :D
listen to me: Mr. Spiral | join the fam: RadioSpiral | my gig: Atomic Words LLC (coming soon)

John the Savage
KVRist
486 posts since 28 Mar, 2017

Post Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:02 pm

Yes.

As per the manual - Panel Settings - Per-Split Settings - MIDI Mode (column 1):

2) ChPerNote (Channel Per Note, also called MPE for MIDI Polyphonic Expression)
Each touch is sent on its own unique MIDI channel, permitting independent 3D control for each simultaneous touch. Played notes are rotated through the assigned Per-Note Channels (see "MIDI Channels" below). Messages common to all notes (like Program Change, Sustain/CC64 or Volume/CC7) are sent over the Main channel, or if no Main channel is selected, redundantly over all Per Note Channels.

Hidden Setting: Force MPE Settings
Hold this button for more than 1/2 second to instantly change other relevant Per-Split Settings for MPE compatibility, for example to play our sounds file for Logic or MainStage. The button's light will turn light blue and these settings will be set as follows:

Left split: Main Ch 1, Per-Note Chs 2-8
Right split: Main Ch 16, Per-Note Chs 9-15
Bend Range: 24
Timbre/Y: CC74
Loudness/Z: Chan Pres

*Also, LinnStrument will send a MIDI Remote Activation message (RPN 6), which will remotely set an MPE sound generator to MPE mode and set its channels and Bend Range to match LinnStrument's.
Note that if LinnStrument receives such a message from a synth, it will select Channel Per Note mode and set its Per-Note Channels and Bend Range to match the values in the received message.

Cheers!

mrspiral
KVRist
129 posts since 10 May, 2018

Post Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:24 pm

Many thanks, Monsieur Le Sauvage. To quote Conrad Schnitzler, "You are friend of mein musik." :D
Mike Metlay, PhD (nuclear physics -- no, seriously!) :D
listen to me: Mr. Spiral | join the fam: RadioSpiral | my gig: Atomic Words LLC (coming soon)

mrspiral
KVRist
129 posts since 10 May, 2018

Post Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:27 pm

This morning I asked my LinnStrument to put the kettle on to boil and throw a couple of burritos in the microwave before loading the dishwasher and making the bed. It did none of these things.

Honestly, I was a bit relieved to discover something it couldn't do.
Mike Metlay, PhD (nuclear physics -- no, seriously!) :D
listen to me: Mr. Spiral | join the fam: RadioSpiral | my gig: Atomic Words LLC (coming soon)

John the Savage
KVRist
486 posts since 28 Mar, 2017

Post Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:33 pm

mrspiral wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:24 pm
Many thanks, Monsieur Le Sauvage. To quote Conrad Schnitzler, "You are friend of mein musik." :D
De rein, und ich bin froh das zu hören. :wink:

Cheers!

P.S. In case it's evident, I do speak French, I do not speak German. :?

LarsDaniel
KVRist
129 posts since 9 Sep, 2019 from Denmark

Post Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:15 am

It should be noted, though, that Hydrasynth does not respond to remotely setting pitchbend range via the MPE config message. It is always 48, so after you send the RPN6 to HS, you have to set the linnstrument PB to 48.

invisible_touch
KVRer
5 posts since 20 Aug, 2020

Post Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:18 am

Sorry for (semi) derailing the thread, but as a solution to the original problem seems to have been found, I don't feel too bad and it sounds like the appropriate audience is here:

I've had my Linnstrument for nearly 5 years now, and I have to admit I haven't really kept up on the documentation. I was fully unaware of this MPE config message. Is there a list of synths that respond to it? I don't believe any of the synths I have do.

My synths that have an MPE mode:

Futuresonus Parva
Audiothingies Micromonsta
Modal Skulpt (just received it, haven't actually used it with my Linnstrument yet)

Quite certain none of those support the MPE config message.

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