"Big sur" here we are again...

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
User avatar
MeldaProduction
KVRAF
12315 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Post Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:19 am

So, it doesn't seem to be released yet, though some customers were suicidal enough to actually install the beta in the hopes that they could make music :D . I'm not sure about the situation, but apparently our plugins are not working there, great :D . Any ideas what the hell are we going to fix for Apple this time? From looking at the OS changes, there doesn't seem to be anything interesting at all, definitely not worth the incompatibilities...

Meanwhile Apple doesn't procrastinate when it comes to the usual propaganda :D :

macOS Big Sur elevates the most advanced desktop operating system in the world to a new level of power and beauty. Experience Mac to the fullest with a refined new design. Enjoy the biggest Safari update ever. Discover new features for Maps and Messages. And get even more transparency around your privacy.
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
Image

RugerioDelStereo
KVRer
28 posts since 23 May, 2020

Post Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:29 am

Well, there's plenty of resources for developers: https://developer.apple.com/

There's a new Xcode, new Universal Binaries that work on all hardware and Rosetta 2.
Don't Fear The Reaper

User avatar
MeldaProduction
KVRAF
12315 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Post Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:36 am

Well, I checked there, but I didn't find a single thing that would say "you need to do this and this to support Big Sur".
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
Image

RugerioDelStereo
KVRer
28 posts since 23 May, 2020

Post Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:27 am

In the keynote they mentioned recompiling as a universal binary in the latest Xcode. Are you in contact with Apple over this? Also, Urs from U-he gave some good remarks in the U-he forums on recompiling binaries for Big Sur.
Don't Fear The Reaper

User avatar
MeldaProduction
KVRAF
12315 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Post Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:33 am

I'm not really in contact with them, I'm sure you agree that this should work without needing to ask for support. Where did you see the U-he's notes? I searched for Big sur here and found nothing too interesting.
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
Image

BlueprintInc
KVRist
122 posts since 9 Apr, 2017

Post Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:50 am

Can't say much as we've deprecated support beginning with catalina. Anyways I wouldn't care if the OS is still in beta. Experience showed us fixing something in the beta makes us fixing it just again when being released :D
RugerioDelStereo wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:27 am
Also, Urs from U-he gave some good remarks in the U-he forums on recompiling binaries for Big Sur.
From what I read u-he plugins won't work properly on Big Sur either: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=550513.

User avatar
MeldaProduction
KVRAF
12315 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Post Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:53 am

Ha! Bold step! Sadly I'm starting to feel that we are just enslaved by Apple forever :D... Anyways I agree, I'll wait, and at some point someone will hopefully come with some info :D .
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
Image

RugerioDelStereo
KVRer
28 posts since 23 May, 2020

Post Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:02 am

VSTs work, AU still has issues for U-He. Urs also mentioned they got things running on Big Sur in a few days, but will delay rollout until ARM macs are for sale.

I think the whole process is a PITA for developers, I can understand indie/small-time outfits not jumping on this until demand for ARM-compatible plugins reaches a critical point :-)
Don't Fear The Reaper

User avatar
Urs
u-he
24662 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:03 am

BlueprintInc wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:50 am
From what I read u-he plugins won't work properly on Big Sur either:
Nope, they don't - we still had those Component Manager resources from 2002 (which were deprecated, but we kept them for backward compatibility). The fix was to add new EntryPoints and move the description into the plist file.

Kind of a bummer since the Component Manager still worked in early betas of Big Sur.

User avatar
MeldaProduction
KVRAF
12315 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Post Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:18 am

RugerioDelStereo wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:02 am
I think the whole process is a PITA for developers, I can understand indie/small-time outfits not jumping on this until demand for ARM-compatible plugins reaches a critical point :-)
That's very accurate. But that's classic Apple...
Anyways I wonder about the ARMs. I still cannot imagine they would be anywhere close to intel/amd stuff performance wise (and I mean real performance, not some hacked benchmarks made by Apple). Apple probably doesn't care, since most of their users just browse web, but for us it is quite relevant.
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
Image

User avatar
syntonica
KVRian
651 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:15 pm

Urs wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:03 am
we still had those Component Manager resources from 2002 (which were deprecated, but we kept them for backward compatibility). The fix was to add new EntryPoints and move the description into the plist file.
That's probably going to bite quite a few developers in the backside since many use AU wrappers and still depend on compiled resources.

User avatar
MeldaProduction
KVRAF
12315 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Post Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:19 pm

syntonica wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:15 pm
Urs wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:03 am
we still had those Component Manager resources from 2002 (which were deprecated, but we kept them for backward compatibility). The fix was to add new EntryPoints and move the description into the plist file.
That's probably going to bite quite a few developers in the backside since many use AU wrappers and still depend on compiled resources.
And what's the "good" implementation then?
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
Image

User avatar
syntonica
KVRian
651 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:23 pm

MeldaProduction wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:19 pm
And what's the "good" implementation then?
Any vestiges of Carbon, CFM, compiled resources and other OS 9y things should have been removed by around 10.4, although they stuck around until 10.9 before Apple started dismantling/breaking/removing things.

User avatar
Urs
u-he
24662 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:46 am

Yes, until recently we supported pre-10.9 installations. With the Catalina changes we dropped support for those, but we simply forgot to remove the dependency on the Component Manager. Bummer.

User avatar
EvilDragon
KVRAF
20298 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:37 am

Also note if you call any dialogs from the DAW process that's not allowed any longer either. Kontakt and Battery have problems with this now.

Return to “DSP and Plug-in Development”