Softube plugins not working in Waveform

Discussion about: tracktion.com
dynamo
KVRist
81 posts since 26 May, 2020

Post Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:39 pm

Does anyone else have problems running plugins from Softube (https://www.softube.com) within Waveform?

All 4 licensed plugins I have from them crash, and a demo version of another Softube plugin also crashed, so it seems there are some compatibility issues in general with this manufacturer along with Waveform (I've also tried to "Validate" them from Waveform's "Plugins" section in its settings.
The same plugins worked fine in Garageband.

Here are the Softube plugins I've tried but all crash within Waveform:

Drawmner S73 intelligent master processor
Saturation knob
TSAR-1R reverb
Tube delay
Valley People Dyna-mite compressor/gate/expander (demo)


I contacted Softube not too long along ago alerting them of the problem, and was told that Waveform wasn't one of the DAWs they tested their plugins with.
I'm no programmer but suggested they share their programming guidelines/specs so I could share that information here for the developers to see (in case there's something they can do about it) and the person I wrote with promised to share my request with the developers (I assume he meant THEIR developers) but haven't heard anything more from them. I have no idea if they've contacted the Tracktion team directly, but thought I'd bring up the issue here in any case.

Does anyone reading know more about these issues and if something is done about it?

terrynoakes
KVRist
441 posts since 7 May, 2007 from Angus,Scotland

Post Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:51 pm

Probably not a lot of help, I have only the free Saturation knob and have had no problems with it.
Win 8.1 64Bit / Intel Core i3-2120 @ 3.30GHz / 16GB Ram / Emu 1212m Sound Card / Ati Radeon HD5400 Series G/Card

dynamo
KVRist
81 posts since 26 May, 2020

Post Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:20 pm

Interesting. It's the same one I have (I forgot it was free) but it crashes here (Waveform Pro 11.1.0, MacOS 10.13.6).
I just tried it. Also validating it within Waveform's "Plugins" settings and both the AU and VST versions fail.
Have you tried validating them and not received any error messages?

terrynoakes
KVRist
441 posts since 7 May, 2007 from Angus,Scotland

Post Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:34 pm

I should have mentioned I'm on PC sorry, running win 8.1 . Saturation plugin just worked after installing. There has been 1 update to it since I first got it.
I think there have been some thread's regarding softube crashing Waveform. Sorry I can't be of more help
Win 8.1 64Bit / Intel Core i3-2120 @ 3.30GHz / 16GB Ram / Emu 1212m Sound Card / Ati Radeon HD5400 Series G/Card

Watchful
KVRist
396 posts since 9 Jan, 2018

Post Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:09 pm

I also had the same issue, and was super-lucky to get a refund. They were pretty snide at first about it, basically telling me to switch to a real DAW. When I indicated that Waveform's validator tests against the VST standard, and theirs were failing to meet the published specification, I got my refund very politely from one of their customer service managers. Make of that what you will. Others here seem to have better luck with their products.

I used that refund to purchase Waves' GTR3, which has been magnificent under Waveform 11.

BTW, running Win 10.

dynamo
KVRist
81 posts since 26 May, 2020

Post Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:17 am

terrynoakes wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:34 pm
I should have mentioned I'm on PC sorry, running win 8.1 . Saturation plugin just worked after installing. There has been 1 update to it since I first got it.
I think there have been some thread's regarding softube crashing Waveform. Sorry I can't be of more help
No worries :) You've definitely been of help as this tells us Softube plugins don't always crash in Waveform. The question is why, and what makes it crash.
Which version of Waveform are you using? I'm on 11.1.0.

So no error messages at all when validating? This is what I get when validating Softube's "Saturation knob" VST (the first parts complete successfully, but keep reading for a final "failed"):


pluginval v0.2.7 - JUCE v5.4.7
Started validating: /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/Softube/Saturation Knob.vst
Random seed: 0x2c68493
Validation started: 17 Sep 2020 10:15:09am

Strictness level: 5
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Scan for known types: /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/Softube/Saturation Knob.vst...
Num types found: 1

Testing plugin: VST-Saturation Knob-d7640730-7361746e
Softube: Saturation Knob v2.4.9.6
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Open plugin (cold)...

Time taken to open plugin (cold): 310 ms
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Open plugin (warm)...

Time taken to open plugin (warm): 11 ms
Running tests 1 times
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Plugin info...

Plugin name: Saturation Knob
Alternative names: Saturation Knob
SupportsDoublePrecision: no
Reported latency: 4
Reported taillength: 0

Time taken to run test: 0
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Plugin programs...
Num programs: 1
All program names checked

Changing program

Time taken to run test: 0
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Editor...

*** FAILED: VALIDATION CRASHED

0 pluginval 0x0000000108a82610 _ZN4juce11SystemStats17getStackBacktraceEv + 64
1 pluginval 0x0000000108a01836 _ZN12_GLOBAL__N_119getCrashLogContentsEv + 38
2 pluginval 0x0000000108a01624 _ZN12_GLOBAL__N_111handleCrashEPv + 20
3 pluginval 0x0000000108a8284d _ZN4juceL11handleCrashEi + 13
4 libsystem_platform.dylib 0x00007fff7235cf5a _sigtramp + 26
5 ??? 0x0000000000000000 0x0 + 0
6 libsystem_c.dylib 0x00007fff720fa1ae abort + 127
7 libc++abi.dylib 0x00007fff6fff4f8f __cxa_bad_cast + 0
8 libc++abi.dylib 0x00007fff6fff512b _ZL26default_unexpected_handlerv + 0
9 libobjc.A.dylib 0x00007fff71435a47 _ZL15_objc_terminatev + 97
10 libc++abi.dylib 0x00007fff700107c9 _ZSt11__terminatePFvvE + 8
11 libc++abi.dylib 0x00007fff70010843 _ZSt9terminatev + 51
12 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff72014dcc _dispatch_client_callout + 28
13 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff72020395 _dispatch_main_queue_callback_4CF + 1148
14 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff4a071c69 __CFRUNLOOP_IS_SERVICING_THE_MAIN_DISPATCH_QUEUE__ + 9
15 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff4a03443a __CFRunLoopRun + 2586
16 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff4a033787 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 487
17 HIToolbox 0x00007fff49313d96 RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 286
18 HIToolbox 0x00007fff49313b06 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 613
19 HIToolbox 0x00007fff49313884 _BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInModeWithFilter + 64
20 AppKit 0x00007fff475c0a3b _DPSNextEvent + 2085
21 AppKit 0x00007fff47d56e34 -[NSApplication(NSEvent) _nextEventMatchingEventMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 3044
22 pluginval 0x0000000108abf665 _ZN4juce14MessageManager20runDispatchLoopUntilEi + 261
23 pluginval 0x0000000108a0e796 _ZL34createAndShowEditorOnMessageThreadRN4juce19AudioPluginInstanceE + 182
24 pluginval 0x0000000108a0e57b _ZN10EditorTest7runTestER11PluginTestsRN4juce19AudioPluginInstanceE + 59
25 pluginval 0x0000000108a0d081 _ZNSt3__110__function6__funcIZN11PluginTests8testTypeERKN4juce17PluginDescriptionEE3$_1NS_9allocatorIS7_EEFvvEEclEv + 33
26 pluginval 0x0000000108ac1bc9 _ZN4juce12MessageQueue21runLoopSourceCallbackEPv + 57
27 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff4a051b01 __CFRUNLOOP_IS_CALLING_OUT_TO_A_SOURCE0_PERFORM_FUNCTION__ + 17
28 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff4a109e5c __CFRunLoopDoSource0 + 108
29 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff4a034ab0 __CFRunLoopDoSources0 + 208
30 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff4a033f2d __CFRunLoopRun + 1293
31 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff4a033787 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 487
32 HIToolbox 0x00007fff49313d96 RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 286
33 HIToolbox 0x00007fff49313b06 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 613
34 HIToolbox 0x00007fff49313884 _BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInModeWithFilter + 64
35 AppKit 0x00007fff475c0a3b _DPSNextEvent + 2085
36 AppKit 0x00007fff47d56e34 -[NSApplication(NSEvent) _nextEventMatchingEventMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 3044
37 AppKit 0x00007fff475b584d -[NSApplication run] + 764
38 pluginval 0x0000000108abc3b0 _ZN4juce19JUCEApplicationBase4mainEv + 144
39 pluginval 0x0000000108abc303 _ZN4juce19JUCEApplicationBase4mainEiPPKc + 83
40 libdyld.dylib 0x00007fff7204e015 start + 1
41 ??? 0x0000000000000004 0x0 + 4

Binary Images:
0x1089fa000 pluginval
0x7fff7235b000 libsystem_platform.dylib
0x7fff7209d000 libsystem_c.dylib
0x7fff6fff3000 libc++abi.dylib
0x7fff7141f000 libobjc.A.dylib
0x7fff72013000 libdispatch.dylib
0x7fff49fb2000 CoreFoundation
0x7fff492e4000 HIToolbox
0x7fff4757f000 AppKit
0x7fff7204d000 libdyld.dylib

dynamo
KVRist
81 posts since 26 May, 2020

Post Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:36 am

Watchful wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:09 pm
I also had the same issue, and was super-lucky to get a refund. They were pretty snide at first about it, basically telling me to switch to a real DAW. When I indicated that Waveform's validator tests against the VST standard, and theirs were failing to meet the published specification, I got my refund very politely from one of their customer service managers. Make of that what you will. Others here seem to have better luck with their products.

I used that refund to purchase Waves' GTR3, which has been magnificent under Waveform 11.

BTW, running Win 10.
Luckily the Softube plugins I have were free (i.e. bundled with my audio interface) and the I tried the demo of another of their plugins before buying it, only to find out that it too crashed.

I didn't get those kind of remarks when contacting them about it, but then again I see nothing being done about it either (at least not yet). I'm pretty new to this DAW thing, before commiting to Waveform, but I can't see how it's not a "real DAW". Oh well.

So Waveform's validator testing goes by the VST standard? That's helpful to know, because then we can at least pinpoint the Softube plugins to be at fault. Then again it's strange that Terrynoakes reports that his "Saturation knob" plugin works.
Then there are the AU plugins which also crash (they work fine in Garageband here. It only takes AU plugins).

Would it help the Softube developers if I send them a copy of the error reports of their plugins as in my previous post

Watchful
KVRist
396 posts since 9 Jan, 2018

Post Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:52 am

We'd need Dave or Roland to confirm how the validator works, exactly, but I don't know how else it could work except to test adherence to the standard.

terrynoakes
KVRist
441 posts since 7 May, 2007 from Angus,Scotland

Post Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:09 am

[No worries :) You've definitely been of help as this tells us Softube plugins don't always crash in Waveform. The question is why, and what makes it crash.
Which version of Waveform are you using? I'm on 11.1.0.]

At the moment I'm using the 11.1.17 Beta, and I loaded it into an edit this morning just to be sure,
It loaded a worked with no problems.
I can't remember when I got it, But it definately worked for me in W10 & W11.1.0
Win 8.1 64Bit / Intel Core i3-2120 @ 3.30GHz / 16GB Ram / Emu 1212m Sound Card / Ati Radeon HD5400 Series G/Card

dynamo
KVRist
81 posts since 26 May, 2020

Post Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:20 am

Terrynoakes; did you try the same plugin (Saturation Knob) with earlier versions of Waveform?
Could it be that the beta version you're using has some changes which will allow Softube plugins to work? That would be great :)

terrynoakes
KVRist
441 posts since 7 May, 2007 from Angus,Scotland

Post Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:41 am

dynamo wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:20 am
Terrynoakes; did you try the same plugin (Saturation Knob) with earlier versions of Waveform?
Could it be that the beta version you're using has some changes which will allow Softube plugins to work? That would be great :)
As I mentioned, definitely used it in Wavefom 10.
I just re installed Waveform 9.3.6 and tried the Saturation knob and it loaded and works.
I'm at a loss as to why it works ok on my system.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Win 8.1 64Bit / Intel Core i3-2120 @ 3.30GHz / 16GB Ram / Emu 1212m Sound Card / Ati Radeon HD5400 Series G/Card

dynamo
KVRist
81 posts since 26 May, 2020

Post Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:06 am

Sorry, I read your post about that a bit too quickly, thinking you were referring to the Windows version, not the Waveform version.

Yes, that's very odd indeed -that it works on your system.
Thanks again for sharing and testing.

UPDATE: something very strange happened: I managed to get two Softube plugins (I only tried two so far) to work in Waveform (11.1.0)!
Softube in Waveform.png
This is what I did:
1) In Settings-Plugins I removed absolutely all plugins
2) Then I chose to add just the AU plugins
3) I opened up a project and played around with various plugins (right-clicking on a plugin, then "Replace this plugin"). At some stage I decided to try the "Drawmer S73" and it opened up without crashing! It actually worked as well.
4) Next I decided to get brave and try another one, so I chose "Saturation knob" and that one worked as well
5) Out of curiosity I went back to Settings-Plugins to validate "Drawmer S73". It failed as before
6) Then I went back to my project and clicked on the Drawmer S73 plugin I had used in a track (but closed). Nothing happened! The other (non-Softube) plugins from my tracks worked
7) Finally I saved the project, quit Waveform
8) Then I started Waveform again, and re-loaded the same project. The Softube plugins used in my tracks worked again

I don't know what to make of all this, but thought I'd share my findings.


UPDATE 2: following the above info I decided to try out those two other Softube plugins ("TSAR-1R reverb" and "Tube delay"), but they didn't show up when selecting plugins (even though the AU plugin folder on my computer contains "Tube Delay.component" and "TSAR-1R Reverb.component"). They don't show up in the "Plugins" settings either, so I used the second validation method ("Validate file") and I got a much shorter report than with the two other plugins:

pluginval v0.2.7 - JUCE v5.4.7
Started validating: /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/Tube Delay.component
Random seed: 0x78ad684
Validation started: 18 Sep 2020 5:58:36pm

Strictness level: 5
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Scan for known types: /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/Tube Delay.component...
Num types found: 0
!!! Test 1 failed: No types found
FAILED!! 1 test failed, out of a total of 1

Finished validating: /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/Tube Delay.component
*** FAILED: 1 TESTS
*** FAILED: 1 TESTS



and for the other one that didn't show up in the DAW:

pluginval v0.2.7 - JUCE v5.4.7
Started validating: /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/TSAR-1R Reverb.component
Random seed: 0x5fd058
Validation started: 18 Sep 2020 6:00:48pm

Strictness level: 5
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Scan for known types: /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/TSAR-1R Reverb.component...
Num types found: 0
!!! Test 1 failed: No types found
FAILED!! 1 test failed, out of a total of 1

Finished validating: /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/TSAR-1R Reverb.component
*** FAILED: 1 TESTS
*** FAILED: 1 TESTS


Maybe someone more competent than me can make sense of those reports :?:


But..... there are also VST versions of those same plugins, and I found out that using those versions crash Waveform. Let me explain:

1) In the Plugin settings I scan for all AU and VST plugins
2) I open up the same project as before, then click on those two Softube plugins (AU) that I previously got working in my tracks. They open up and work fine
3) then I want to add one of the Softube plugins that I haven't tried yet ("TSAR-1R reverb" or "Tube delay") -these didn't show up in the list of AU plugins, but are available as VST plugins.
So with one of the tracks where I already have a fully working plugin I right-click and choose "Replace this plugin", then choose the "TSAR-1R reverb" VST plugin
4) as soon as I do that the existing plugin windows disappear and all my plugins used in the project (not just those from Softube) get a yellow "!" warning icon next to them. Nothing happens when I click on any of the plugins in the tracks (they should open once clicked on).

Here's what it all looks like before selecting one of the Softube VSTs:
softube before VST.png
And here's how it all looks when I added the Softube VST and all my plugins crashed:
softube crash after VST.png
An error message also showed up when that happened (in the properties section of the track):
softube VST crash error message.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

dynamo
KVRist
81 posts since 26 May, 2020

Post Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:55 am

Can anyone make sense of my findings so far?

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