Life - EDMish

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KVRer
24 posts since 3 Jan, 2021

Post Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:58 am

https://soundcloud.com/mushroomcar/life

Pretty happy with this, feel like it has more presence and more precise sound arrangement and more correct sidechaining overall. But it is repetitive and non changing melody wise and second part is same as first. Might have too much side chain and long buildups.

-How is sound quality, volume balance (too quiet at parts or loud?) in your hardware?
-How is bass/kickdrum/drumloops and groove?

Please comment with any constructive feedback, thanks!

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KVRian
774 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:12 pm

Musically, I think there are some really great ideas in there...shades of early Juno Reaktor (Shango and Labyrinth albums), but...

For me, the mix isn't quite there yet and doesn't do the music justice...

Very bass heavy at times...seems to go right down to 20Hz quite powerfully sometimes with quite a few dominant moments in the 50 - 60Hz area.

Not enough room to breathe in the mix...too many 'big' sounds fighting each other...they need sculpting with EQ and placing a bit more precisely in the 3D sound stage.

Side-chaining - seriously dominates the mix when it kicks in - too much so for me.

With a bit of mix tweaking this could be very good!
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

KVRist
85 posts since 7 Aug, 2011

Post Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:14 pm

at first I thought this is some kind of mix, I was hearing 3 different songs :D
it lacks general cohesion, I'm hearing multiple themes which don't gel together well and are all over the place
in general your sounds aren't bad, just too powerful sometimes and some effects are out of sync

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KVRAF
7482 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Post Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:39 pm

The sidechain compression pumping is horrendous. the mix on this this is like a fat girl
wearing jeans bursting at the seams. the song itself could use better arranging to
give the elements their own space. keep at it.
HW SYNTHS [KORG T2EX - AKAI AX80 - YAMAHA SY77 - ENSONIQ VFX]
HW MODULES [OBi M1000 - ROLAND MKS-50 - ROLAND JV880 - KURZ 1000PX]
SW [CHARLATAN - OBXD - OXE - ELEKTRO - MICROTERA - M1 - SURGE - RMiV]
DAW [ENERGY XT2/1U RACK WINXP / MAUDIO 1010LT PCI]

KVRer

Topic Starter

24 posts since 3 Jan, 2021

Post Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:52 pm

ChameleonMusic wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:12 pm
Musically, I think there are some really great ideas in there...shades of early Juno Reaktor (Shango and Labyrinth albums), but...

For me, the mix isn't quite there yet and doesn't do the music justice...

Very bass heavy at times...seems to go right down to 20Hz quite powerfully sometimes with quite a few dominant moments in the 50 - 60Hz area.

Not enough room to breathe in the mix...too many 'big' sounds fighting each other...they need sculpting with EQ and placing a bit more precisely in the 3D sound stage.

Side-chaining - seriously dominates the mix when it kicks in - too much so for me.

With a bit of mix tweaking this could be very good!
Yeah im trying to learn how to make bass/layer it atm and obviously not there yet, more tutorials! ^^ Side chaining wasnt as present before i started mastering so gotta check into that issue.

The bass going from 20hz to 50-60hz must be me chaning their octave in different patterns.. How should i do this correctly? Should they stick to one octave through the song and just do some melody variation and effect variations? Subbass should be one octave lower than the other bass's kinda?

Should the EQuing sculpting be VERY precise? Like where the bass is, the leads should not overlap the slightest? Should all sounds have precise "walls" that restrict them to each frequency spectrum? Like Kick and Bass exclusively using 20-300hz and no other sounds entering this area (Chords starting at 301hz and up?)? Same with Leads and melody in their own exclusive arrays?

Thanks for feedbacking! Appreciate it tooons!

KVRer

Topic Starter

24 posts since 3 Jan, 2021

Post Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:56 pm

ssl4000 wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:14 pm
at first I thought this is some kind of mix, I was hearing 3 different songs :D
it lacks general cohesion, I'm hearing multiple themes which don't gel together well and are all over the place
in general your sounds aren't bad, just too powerful sometimes and some effects are out of sync
Lol i can tell what you mean haha, and yeah i agree, im at the stage where i try to make sounds fit togheter even more - how to balance, shape and color them so they fit togheter better. Also im using same chords and melodies over and over since i try to learn other aspects atm of producing. xD

Thanks for feedback! :)

KVRer

Topic Starter

24 posts since 3 Jan, 2021

Post Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:00 pm

layzer wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:39 pm
The sidechain compression pumping is horrendous. the mix on this this is like a fat girl
wearing jeans bursting at the seams. the song itself could use better arranging to
give the elements their own space. keep at it.
HAHA lol thats a good comparison and i agree rofl! :hihi: It was ok before i started mastering so i dunno what went wrong with the side chain but assume there was too much sounds to hear it correctly at first. Gotta learn better EQuing indeed, and yeah arrangement isnt there yet too, too long buildup with same chords, weird drop arrangetment.

Thanks for your feedback! (:

KVRist
32 posts since 21 May, 2020

Post Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:30 am

hi,
first i'm no pro, struggling on my own (search for Lo-Fi IDM...) and second: it's not quite my genre :D

but i wanted to try to give you an answer. maybe it helps or maybe it's a starting point to think ahead. or just to discuss...

others wrote about the deep frequencies. maybe it could help to use a highpass filter. Cut everything off below 30hz really hard and maybe (it could be wrong for the genre) use a softer highpass filter starting at 50hz-60hz. it doesn't cut everything below it, but it could help to control it. but on my speakers, they don't go that deep at all. for me the mix sounds "hard" and very direct (maybe it is intended and part of the genre, but it tires my ears really quickly).

about the frequencies for lead bass etc.: try to highpass, lowpass every single instrument. if you want the bass, cut the highs of it - highpass your lead, so much that it doesn't lose its main function or character but get rid of the frequencies it doesn't need. if i'm wrong, please correct me!

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KVRAF
7482 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Post Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:47 pm

Shroomcar wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:00 pm
layzer wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:39 pm
The sidechain compression pumping is horrendous. the mix on this this is like a fat girl
wearing jeans bursting at the seams. the song itself could use better arranging to
give the elements their own space. keep at it.
HAHA lol thats a good comparison and i agree rofl! :hihi: It was ok before i started mastering so i dunno what went wrong with the side chain but assume there was too much sounds to hear it correctly at first. Gotta learn better EQuing indeed, and yeah arrangement isnt there yet too, too long buildup with same chords, weird drop arrangetment.

Thanks for your feedback! (:
good to see some people in here actually have a sense of humor!
many would get all butt hurt and defensive and go attack my posts.
i've never been a fan of the sidechain compression fad, to me
it just sounds annoying. i go back and listen to some of my first
recordings after discovering brickwall limiting and i cringe. :hihi:
HW SYNTHS [KORG T2EX - AKAI AX80 - YAMAHA SY77 - ENSONIQ VFX]
HW MODULES [OBi M1000 - ROLAND MKS-50 - ROLAND JV880 - KURZ 1000PX]
SW [CHARLATAN - OBXD - OXE - ELEKTRO - MICROTERA - M1 - SURGE - RMiV]
DAW [ENERGY XT2/1U RACK WINXP / MAUDIO 1010LT PCI]

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KVRian
1474 posts since 19 Aug, 2008

Post Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:10 pm

Love some of the elements you used in this, and the creativity too.
from 0:40 to 3:44 it was intense, perhaps too intense for too long. I'd try dropping out elements every so many bars and bring them back in a creative way. E.g. drop the kick and bass out. Just have a bar or two of bass + something else. etc.
Daft Punk are masters of having a seemingly samey groove, but ever two to four bars they are doing somrthing different.

KVRer

Topic Starter

24 posts since 3 Jan, 2021

Post Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:58 pm

tomtom1 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:30 am
hi,
first i'm no pro, struggling on my own (search for Lo-Fi IDM...) and second: it's not quite my genre :D

but i wanted to try to give you an answer. maybe it helps or maybe it's a starting point to think ahead. or just to discuss...

others wrote about the deep frequencies. maybe it could help to use a highpass filter. Cut everything off below 30hz really hard and maybe (it could be wrong for the genre) use a softer highpass filter starting at 50hz-60hz. it doesn't cut everything below it, but it could help to control it. but on my speakers, they don't go that deep at all. for me the mix sounds "hard" and very direct (maybe it is intended and part of the genre, but it tires my ears really quickly).

about the frequencies for lead bass etc.: try to highpass, lowpass every single instrument. if you want the bass, cut the highs of it - highpass your lead, so much that it doesn't lose its main function or character but get rid of the frequencies it doesn't need. if i'm wrong, please correct me!
I think i'm doing what you say but not effective enough i think.. hmmm. I do cut bellow 30hz and above 20khz in the mastering step, and make everything bellow 100hz mono.

You are sure onto what im struggeling with. I do EQ everything but obviously not in the right way! My chords and leads have a wide frequency and overlaps each other with other sounds. Its mostly bass and kick that have their own frequency range that doesnt overlap the higher ones, the rest are kinda in the same space above that and i dont know how to separate the sounds above bass.

I'm not sure how to cut for the rest of the sounds, how strict should it be? Which sounds should/can overlap and which shouldnt? Bass can play at the same time as chords and melody? Should all sounds not play at the same time? Often bassline, chord, melody start at the same time in a pattern in the same note.

But i often use VERY sharp cut offs, thats almost 90 degrees steep, is this a big problem? How aggressive should i cut everything? Should it ONLY be bass and kick under the chords/leads and ONLY melody/top melody at the right spectrum with sharp separating EQ cut offs between these 3 areas?

Thanks for commenting and discussing, greatly appreciate! :)

KVRer

Topic Starter

24 posts since 3 Jan, 2021

Post Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:01 pm

layzer wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:47 pm
Shroomcar wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:00 pm
layzer wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:39 pm
The sidechain compression pumping is horrendous. the mix on this this is like a fat girl
wearing jeans bursting at the seams. the song itself could use better arranging to
give the elements their own space. keep at it.
HAHA lol thats a good comparison and i agree rofl! :hihi: It was ok before i started mastering so i dunno what went wrong with the side chain but assume there was too much sounds to hear it correctly at first. Gotta learn better EQuing indeed, and yeah arrangement isnt there yet too, too long buildup with same chords, weird drop arrangetment.

Thanks for your feedback! (:
good to see some people in here actually have a sense of humor!
many would get all butt hurt and defensive and go attack my posts.
i've never been a fan of the sidechain compression fad, to me
it just sounds annoying. i go back and listen to some of my first
recordings after discovering brickwall limiting and i cringe. :hihi:
As long as its some constructive criticism and tells me what the problem is im happy to learn! :) I wanna get better, and learn this till its good, love producing and love to learn. Well i like EDM and such and side chaining too, but not in this amount!

KVRer

Topic Starter

24 posts since 3 Jan, 2021

Post Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:07 pm

Bansaw wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:10 pm
Love some of the elements you used in this, and the creativity too.
from 0:40 to 3:44 it was intense, perhaps too intense for too long. I'd try dropping out elements every so many bars and bring them back in a creative way. E.g. drop the kick and bass out. Just have a bar or two of bass + something else. etc.
Daft Punk are masters of having a seemingly samey groove, but ever two to four bars they are doing somrthing different.
Happy to hear that, thanks! Yeah the buildup and the drop were toooo long in this track and they should be busy, but it was too long and often 2 of same patterns over and over. Ive started to learn how to make stuff drop in and out and some parts of this track shows that i think, but its indeed too intense. Hmm just bass and something else sounds interesting to implement, havent tried that! Oh yeah i love their music too, maybe they can be an inspiration. :)

Thanks a lot for commenting! :)

KVRist
32 posts since 21 May, 2020

Post Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:26 pm

Shroomcar wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:58 pm
tomtom1 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:30 am

I'm not sure how to cut for the rest of the sounds, how strict should it be? Which sounds should/can overlap and which shouldnt? Bass can play at the same time as chords and melody? Should all sounds not play at the same time? Often bassline, chord, melody start at the same time in a pattern in the same note.

But i often use VERY sharp cut offs, thats almost 90 degrees steep, is this a big problem? How aggressive should i cut everything? Should it ONLY be bass and kick under the chords/leads and ONLY melody/top melody at the right spectrum with sharp separating EQ cut offs between these 3 areas?
puh... now im on a dangerous grounds :D and i don't know if i'm right...
everything following is my personal (non-pro) view:

- EQ-ing: i would do: sweep your hpf until essence of sound is lost, then dial back where it keeps it
- don't use a masterplan how to cut - but listen carefully. for me e.g. this is the biggest problem. i got new speakers and i have a non pro environment. Can you trust your speakers? Do they stand in the right place? Yesterday i walked in a corner of my room and i heard so much low-end like never before - i never recognized this effect before - i read about it, but never believed it.

what i want to say:
Know your speakers with reference material. If a track of a well respected artist have more bass on your speakers - do it the same way (if less then less) - I cannot say: cut 60Hz with a 18db/octave hpf - if it sounds wrong to your material. If bass, melody, and chords start the same time (and your favourite artist does the same) and it sounds great - everything is ok. if not try to use a gentle hpf and lpf for the sound and check the sound (in the mix bus) - not in solo - throwing 3 soloed great soundings sounds together will often not sound that good in the result.

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KVRian
774 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:42 am

Should the EQing sculpting be VERY precise?
There's no easy answer to that question - depends on the piece, the sounds involved etc etc.

But, I certainly would never advise someone to mix so that every sound is entirely separate as such in terms of frequency content!

I've taught and lectured in all this stuff for 32 years...I'll send you a link to some articles on use of EQ / Compression etc
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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