Sonarworks SoundID Reference

[gondii]

They are slightly cheaper over at JRR Shop (you know, with the code GROUP or FORUM). I'm sure that the upgrades will be on sale at some point, I think I'll wait and see.

With FORUM it's currently 79something dollar.

Which is actually around 65€. Moving in the right direction

[martinjuenke]

I used Sonarworks on the Mac until I got new headphones and they don't have a profile for them. I have nothing against Sonarworks and would probably still use it if they had profiles for my headphones.

Another Mac program that provides headphone correction is Soundsource by RogueAmoeba, and they give you access to way more correction profiles from many sources. You can even use a plugin like Pro-Q3 with your own correction profile. It's what I use now.

https://rogueamoeba.com/soundsource/

47 dollars... I am starting to think...

[plexuss]

I used Sonarworks on the Mac until I got new headphones and they don't have a profile for them. I have nothing against Sonarworks and would probably still use it if they had profiles for my headphones.

Another Mac program that provides headphone correction is Soundsource by RogueAmoeba, and they give you access to way more correction profiles from many sources. You can even use a plugin like Pro-Q3 with your own correction profile. It's what I use now.

https://rogueamoeba.com/soundsource/

I have a pair of Sonarworks DT770's with the profile. Using Sonarworks with the phones and calibrated monitors, they both sound very similar which is great for mixing and mastering. For my other phones I use Toneboosters Morphit which also has "generic" profiles for a bunch of headphones and the only one that has a profile for my Stax. I do think it makes the Stax sound flatter. But the Sonarworks+DT770+profile really makes a difference.

[Uriel Anthony]

Just managed to install and got the new "Virtual ASIO to ASIO" driver working. It shows up as a ASIO driver in the DAW and feeds directly into the new "systemwide" (now is simply called "SoundID Reference"?) but without all the extra latency like the old Systemwide has. That means no more need to install and drop the VST plugin into your DAW's master channel or worry about it when rendering.

But this thing is so full of bugs right now and even the new WASAPI APO driver is still labelled as "(Beta)" in the software itself, which is exactly what the whole thing feels like. A super rushed deadline release with a whole bunch of stuffs unfixed. They actually even mention in their official release notes: https://www.sonarworks.com/legal/soundi ... ease-notes

"Unknown error while updating preset can occur. As of now, it is still unknown what causes these errors. Users might need to add a preset again. If you find the reproduction steps for this issue, please contact our support team."

I really like what they've come up with and they seem like a bunch of nice folks (the support team at least that I've interacted with) but like the rest of you the price simply doesn't justify, at least not for the current release. This has the most bugs I've ever encountered in a single piece of audio software I've ever used and tested. And also the upgrade price from 3 to 4 was way cheaper back then like $49? Do I really want to pay $89 bucks just to be a beta tester?

[sguyader]

I have Reference 4 Headphone, and I tried to download the trial update yesterday on my Mac. From the installer it asked me to go register on their web page but it led me to a non working webpage. Quite a disaster for now.

[teilo]

I upgraded from Reference 4 Studio. (This is on macOS.) I appreciate the ability to set my own target profiles, and I will definitely be using the new simulation targets during mixing / mastering. The $89 upgrade was worth it just for this feature.

Sonarworks has no support articles on the upgrade process from Reference 4 to StudioID (other than how to purchase the upgrade), leaving us to guess how this is supposed to work. They really need to address this, and ideally, offer an option in their installer to uninstall Reference 4.

Here are my notes on the upgrade:

On install, it automatically imported my existing speaker profiles from Reference 4. However, it imported no settings. I had to re-setup my audio outputs, assign the profiles, and re-download my headphone profiles.

It did not uninstall Reference 4. The Systemwide and Measure apps were still there, as well as the plugins. I manually uninstalled them per the instructions on the Sonarworks website. However, the HAL extension in ~/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/HAL was uninstalled, as one would expect.

I created a new calibration, but the process is essentially unchanged from Reference Studio 4. The resulting profile was of course, slightly different, but still recognizably similar to the profiles I created in RS4.

Other observations:

I did not previously use Systemwide. I have it setup now. I use an external DAC adapter for my headphones. I have my Scarlett 6i6 configured for my monitors, and my headphone DAC for my headphones with the corresponding profiles. When I plugged in my headphone DAC, Systemwide automatically switched to the DAC, and my headphone profile. This is nice.

However, if I am using my MacBook Pro by itself, I get no audio at all. I added my MacBook Pro Speakers as an output in Systemwide, without a profile. This allowed Systemwide to use that output when no others were available, but when that is done, it no longer auto-switches. Reference really needs a way to prioritize audio outputs for auto-switching. Ideally, I want to set the order as Macbook Speakers -> Scarlett 6i6 -> Headphone DAC. That way, it would automatically use the Macbook's speaker if no other DAC is plugged in, and if I plug in my Headphone DAC, it would override both the Macbook speakers, and the Scarlett. For now, when I plugin my interface, I will have to manually switch the output in Reference to the Scarlett. Otherwise it stays on the Macbook speakers.

[gondii]

I'm having a lot of issues with Reference Systemwide. I'm just writing that here in the hopes that someone has some advice.

1) In the past Sonarworks Systemwide sometimes had difficulties finding the ASIO Driver (Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO Driver) of my interface (Steinberg UR44). This was not so much an issue with setting up my headphones, as they are connected to an Apogee Groove, not the UR44. But it made it kind of difficult to measure my room with the microphone.

At some point I got it to work and was able to create my profiles and it ran consistently for a few months and I didn't touch it. What never worked was using Systemwide within my DAW (Live 11) so I always used the VST in the DAW and Systemwide for everything else. Now after fiddling around with trying to get SoundID Reference running, the connection to the ASIO Driver is lost again and I basically cannot use Systemwide at all. VST version works and does find the driver there. So I can load existing profiles, but could not create new ones.

2) Now I am also having issues with Systemwide and the use of my Apogee Groove and the Apogee ASIO Driver. When I am using my DAW, all the audio outside of the DAW is turned off. I assume it might have something to do with "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device" or some other settings, but I can't turn it off and switching this setting off usually doesn't help. Once I quit Systemwide, audio runs normally. The problem arises when DAW and audio (e.g. in the browser) are running.

It was running fine for the past few months and I almost exclusively used the monitors. So I didn't notice issues with the headphone drivers. But after messing around with SoundID it's basically unusable at the moment and it's incredibly frustrating. If changing to SoundID means that this somehow works, I would upgrade in a heartbeat. But I can't even get that one running.

I have written support, too. But really, any thoughts would be much appreciated. Using Windows 10.

[Scarlet Pumpernickel]

What never worked was using Systemwide within my DAW (Live 11) so I always used the VST in the DAW and Systemwide for everything else.

Systemwide isn't supposed (designed) to work with a DAW, more so, Systemwide should automatically go into bypass when Sonarworks VST is loaded.

[gondii]

Systemwide isn't supposed (designed) to work with a DAW, more so, Systemwide should automatically go into bypass when Sonarworks VST is loaded.

OK, good to know that at least this part was functioning normally. I think the main issues are a.) Systemwide won't find ASIO Driver (Yamaha) and b.) Systemwide gets Windows confused about second ASIO Driver (Apogee) and kills non-DAW sounds. Probably those issues aren't connected...

[Uriel Anthony]

If you're referring to Reference 4 Systemwide, you need to use the Sonarworks MME driver in Ableton Live. Btw, I've never used the ASIO mode in Systemwide, WASAPI is the better way to go to prevent locking up the ASIO driver.

For the new SoundID "systemwide", you need to select the Virtual ASIO to ASIO driver when adding a new ASIO driver output then use the newly installed "Sonarworks ASIO Driver (YourAudioInterfaceName)" in Ableton Live.

Screenshot 2021-03-14 220946.png

Screenshot 2021-03-14 221038.png

Depending on your setup and driver, you might be able to use ASIO and WASAPI concurrently with SoundID. But beware of missing presets from the main UI, or rather entire missing output for my case. You can get them back by right clicking on the notification icon instead which will still show up in there.

[gondii]

If you're referring to Reference 4 Systemwide, you need to use the Sonarworks MME driver in Ableton Live. Btw, I've never used the ASIO mode in Systemwide, WASAPI is the better way to go to prevent locking up the ASIO driver.

Thanks a ton. I deleted SoundID (still not running) and Sonarworks Reference 4 completely and reinstalled it and now I'm making progress. The only issue is that I can't run the ASIO driver of my audio interface in Systemwide and my DAW at the same time. In order to select the corresponding output in my DAW I have to shut own Systemwide. And getting it to show back up again in Systemwide requires a restart. I have not had this problem before.

Very interesting about the WASAPI mode. I experimented with it early on as it seemed to indeed create less driver issues. However I was completely unable to measure my room with the mic, it kept on jumping erratically around. So I stayed away from it now. Are there any drawbacks in using WASAPI mode in Systemwide? I will try this out! Thanks.

Edit: This seems to work very well. THANK YOU!!! This at least solves a massive headache.

Also tried using Systemwide through the DAW with massive latency. I think this is something that SoundID solves, correct? In which case, I might just upgrade,... if I can get the program do launch.

[Uriel Anthony]

The only issue is that I can't run the ASIO driver of my audio interface in Systemwide and my DAW at the same time.

It's not possible to have more than one program accessing a ASIO driver. ASIO is an exclusive mode. But you might be able to run ASIO and WASAPI together depending on your drivers. Mine does.

Are there any drawbacks in using WASAPI mode in Systemwide?

The only drawback is the ASIO mode instead due to the exclusive lock. Some might argue that you might get (slightly) lower latency but either way you wouldn't be recording thru Systemwide since the only way for Ableton Live to feed into Systemwide is via the MME driver mode which is high latency, but good enough for mixing and mastering.

Also tried using Systemwide through the DAW with massive latency. I think this is something that SoundID solves, correct?

Yes. But the amount of bugs it has right now doesn't justify paying for the upgrade to me. I'm just going to wait til my trial period expires and see how it goes if they have release fixes by then.

It's a nice awesome new feature for sure but I'm starting to ask myself do I really need calibration when recording? I don't even use the Reference 4 VST plugin when recording so far. Either way, for accuracy sake you'll still need to switch between zero latency and mixed/linear phase mode between recording and mixing/mastering which is almost the same time it takes to switch between ASIO and MME drivers in Ableton Live to me. None of the options beat hardware zero latency monitoring though...which obviously completely bypasses everything.

EDIT: the default buffer sample size of 4096 for MME drivers in Ableton Live is way to high. You should be able to safely bring it down to 1024, or 2048 if you find the CPU usage is getting too high. I'm able to go down to 720 in my system.

[gondii]

It's not possible to have more than one program accessing a ASIO driver. ASIO is an exclusive mode. But you might be able to run ASIO and WASAPI together depending on your drivers. Mine does.

Interesting, somehow it did work before, but who knows why. Apparently I can run ASIO and WASAPI together, it seems to be working just as I would hope. So once again, thank you!

All good points on SoundID Systemwide and still having to switch between zero latency and linear phase. I do want to use correction while recording as well, just because I've gotten so used to it and the lines between recording/writing/sound design and mixing can get a bit blurry for me, however if it's not "set and forget", I also wonder how much of an improvement it would be to what I have now.

I am going to do the trial eventually and then might upgrade during a sale if all the bugs that are being reported are sorted out. For now I'm happy (again)!

[Uriel Anthony]

BTW, SoundID and Reference 4 Systemwide cannot run together at the same time. So make sure one is no longer running when launching the other.

Screenshot 2021-03-15 014328.png

And since SoundID requires you to login to your Sonarworks account to authorize (even the trial) I suppose you might run into problem when trying to launch it in an offline machine.

Also, SoundID will not work if you tick on the "Disable all enhancement" checkbox. This is probably by design and is not a bug.

Screenshot 2021-03-15 012556.png

And the SoundID ASIO drivers will not work when you untick the Exclusive Mode checkboxes. This is also probably by design and is not a bug.

Screenshot 2021-03-15 012616.png

And finally

Screenshot 2021-03-15 014016.png

[gondii]

Haha, they should pay you. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be it. I did try uninstalling Reference 4 before and only installing SoundID, didn't work. Also just tried it with the other settings you suggested, no luck either. But lots of really good to know info there!!