Are these songs trip-hop, big beat, hip-hop, or what?

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KVRAF
2253 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:21 pm

I've put it down as trip-hop. I was inclined towards big beat, but then i read Luke Vibert Wikipedia page and it mentions trip-hop but no mention of big beat. Then i've looked at Thievery Corporation Wikipedia page and it mentions hip-hop but no mention of trip-hop. I'm confused!

https://soundcloud.com/springgoose/sets/intro

I wasn't thinking of a specific Luke Vibert/Wagon Christ song or album, but i was thinking specifically of the Thievery Corporation album The Cosmic Game and also specifically Shaolin Satellite song.

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KVRian
1057 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:26 pm

TripHop is much more mellow and usually more down tempo...

Tricky / Massive Attack / Portishead

Big Beat is maybe a little bit more energy- filled and more up tempo...

Fat Boy Slim / Prodigy / Chemical Brothers

Drum sound + use of quite raw electronic synth sounds put it in the BB zone without a doubt, but it's more chilled than most BB as mentioned already...

For me there's not much TH in there really as that sound is more blended together and also often uses vocals and acoustic instruments as well as electronics.
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

2253 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:32 pm

ChameleonMusic wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:26 pm
TripHop is much more mellow and usually more down tempo...

Tricky / Massive Attack / Portishead

Big Beat is maybe a little bit more energy- filled and more up tempo...

Fat Boy Slim / Prodigy / Chemical Brothers

Drum sound + use of quite raw electronic synth sounds put it in the BB zone without a doubt, but it's more chilled than most BB as mentioned already...

For me there's not much TH in there really as that sound is more blended together and also often uses vocals and acoustic instruments as well as electronics.
Thanks Mark. Yeah that's what i thought, it's quite unlike any trip-hop that i've heard before, but i don't know why Wikipedia put Luke Vibert (Wagon Christ) as trip-hop, maybe it's an inaccuracy, but all i could see in Luke Vibert is similar stuff like this.

Do you think "downtempo" is a catch-all term which includes this?

What about hip-hop? Would you call DJ Shadow - Endtroducing hip-hop? Again i don't think my songs really have the traits to call it hip-hop.

I'll change it to "big beat/downtempo" in the meantime.

KVRist
132 posts since 21 May, 2020 from germany

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:27 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:32 pm
ChameleonMusic wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:26 pm
TripHop is much more mellow and usually more down tempo...

Tricky / Massive Attack / Portishead

Big Beat is maybe a little bit more energy- filled and more up tempo...

Fat Boy Slim / Prodigy / Chemical Brothers

Drum sound + use of quite raw electronic synth sounds put it in the BB zone without a doubt, but it's more chilled than most BB as mentioned already...

For me there's not much TH in there really as that sound is more blended together and also often uses vocals and acoustic instruments as well as electronics.
Thanks Mark. Yeah that's what i thought, it's quite unlike any trip-hop that i've heard before, but i don't know why Wikipedia put Luke Vibert (Wagon Christ) as trip-hop, maybe it's an inaccuracy, but all i could see in Luke Vibert is similar stuff like this.

Do you think "downtempo" is a catch-all term which includes this?

What about hip-hop? Would you call DJ Shadow - Endtroducing hip-hop? Again i don't think my songs really have the traits to call it hip-hop.

I'll change it to "big beat/downtempo" in the meantime.
normally, i would never comment about pop-styles (cause i don't know that much about them) - but as teenager i listend a lot (and only to Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Fatboy Slim, DJ Shadow, Unkle).

you mix different styles - i would set them in between.
e.g first track: reminds me of old aphex twin tracks (the synth-sounds, and even the drumbreak, he used hip-hop beats too and sometimes pitched them up)

second track: reminds me of Dj Shadow (instrumental hip hop) except that he used only samples and no synths on "Entroducing".

third track: has some serious prodigyesque vibes (e.g. tracks like: The Trick, Stand up (for the 303), or the role of the bass (like in Poison) - i like the third the most; personally i would get rid of all the lovely and nice pad-stuff and make it raw with the bass and heavy drums (maybe added a raw melody synth-riff) and then you have a classical old Prodigy track :)

may i ask where the beats come from?

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KVRian
606 posts since 3 Jul, 2017

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:19 am

From a personal point of view I would not describe these as trip hop - as they inroduce some uplifting melodies, which are not so common in trip hop styles. Nevertheless, nice tracks. Cool cover art!

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

2253 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:45 am

tomtom1 wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:27 am
Spring Goose wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:32 pm
ChameleonMusic wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:26 pm
TripHop is much more mellow and usually more down tempo...

Tricky / Massive Attack / Portishead

Big Beat is maybe a little bit more energy- filled and more up tempo...

Fat Boy Slim / Prodigy / Chemical Brothers

Drum sound + use of quite raw electronic synth sounds put it in the BB zone without a doubt, but it's more chilled than most BB as mentioned already...

For me there's not much TH in there really as that sound is more blended together and also often uses vocals and acoustic instruments as well as electronics.
Thanks Mark. Yeah that's what i thought, it's quite unlike any trip-hop that i've heard before, but i don't know why Wikipedia put Luke Vibert (Wagon Christ) as trip-hop, maybe it's an inaccuracy, but all i could see in Luke Vibert is similar stuff like this.

Do you think "downtempo" is a catch-all term which includes this?

What about hip-hop? Would you call DJ Shadow - Endtroducing hip-hop? Again i don't think my songs really have the traits to call it hip-hop.

I'll change it to "big beat/downtempo" in the meantime.
normally, i would never comment about pop-styles (cause i don't know that much about them) - but as teenager i listend a lot (and only to Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Fatboy Slim, DJ Shadow, Unkle).

you mix different styles - i would set them in between.
e.g first track: reminds me of old aphex twin tracks (the synth-sounds, and even the drumbreak, he used hip-hop beats too and sometimes pitched them up)

second track: reminds me of Dj Shadow (instrumental hip hop) except that he used only samples and no synths on "Entroducing".

third track: has some serious prodigyesque vibes (e.g. tracks like: The Trick, Stand up (for the 303), or the role of the bass (like in Poison) - i like the third the most; personally i would get rid of all the lovely and nice pad-stuff and make it raw with the bass and heavy drums (maybe added a raw melody synth-riff) and then you have a classical old Prodigy track :)

may i ask where the beats come from?
Thanks for what you said.

When Sample Magic website shut down, and they went to Splice only, they had a 70% off sale, and i bought quite a bit of stuff including Vintage Breaks 1-6 and Vintage Drumfills. These samples are still available from Splice i think with a subscription. The break in the second song is a remake of a classic break i think which i think i recognise it from a Saint Etienne song.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

2253 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:46 am

htcnext2 wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:19 am
From a personal point of view I would not describe these as trip hop - as they inroduce some uplifting melodies, which are not so common in trip hop styles. Nevertheless, nice tracks. Cool cover art!
Thanks, and thanks!

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KVRian
1057 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:16 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:32 pm
ChameleonMusic wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:26 pm
TripHop is much more mellow and usually more down tempo...

Tricky / Massive Attack / Portishead

Big Beat is maybe a little bit more energy- filled and more up tempo...

Fat Boy Slim / Prodigy / Chemical Brothers

Drum sound + use of quite raw electronic synth sounds put it in the BB zone without a doubt, but it's more chilled than most BB as mentioned already...

For me there's not much TH in there really as that sound is more blended together and also often uses vocals and acoustic instruments as well as electronics.
Thanks Mark. Yeah that's what i thought, it's quite unlike any trip-hop that i've heard before, but i don't know why Wikipedia put Luke Vibert (Wagon Christ) as trip-hop, maybe it's an inaccuracy, but all i could see in Luke Vibert is similar stuff like this.

Do you think "downtempo" is a catch-all term which includes this?

What about hip-hop? Would you call DJ Shadow - Endtroducing hip-hop? Again i don't think my songs really have the traits to call it hip-hop.

I'll change it to "big beat/downtempo" in the meantime.
Truth is that I've never got very hung up on labels... Even back in the early 90s when I was producing Jungle / Drum and Bass I never really stuck to the frameworks that so many felt were sacrosanct, golden rules! 🙄

I would probably define these tracks as either simply EDM or IDM as they are a morphing of various elements from different genres to my ear.
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

2253 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Post Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:14 am

I just thought: isn't Sneaker Pimps also trip-hop? Sneaker Pimps is quite a bit different than your Portishead and Massive Attack.

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KVRian
1057 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:33 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:14 am
I just thought: isn't Sneaker Pimps also trip-hop? Sneaker Pimps is quite a bit different than your Portishead and Massive Attack.
SP did one or two vaguely TH tracks from what I remember, but were quite a hybrid alt rock / EDM / quirky pop act who were hard to pin down to one particular style....long time ago... Early 90s...don't remember them that well.
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

2253 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Post Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:31 am


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addled muppet weed
77445 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:45 am

5 and 6 both had some interesting bits :tu:
be good to develop those a bit

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

2253 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Post Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:11 am

Thanks for listening Vurt. What do you suggest to develop, because i'm not sure what you mean when you say that? Thanks.

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addled muppet weed
77445 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:15 am

Spring Goose wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:11 am
Thanks for listening Vurt. What do you suggest to develop, because i'm not sure what you mean when you say that? Thanks.
at the moment there's a lot of repetition, play around with the beats a bit, adding fills, changing rythym here and there
flesh them out a bit :)

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

2253 posts since 31 Jan, 2020

Post Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:16 am

vurt wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:15 am
Spring Goose wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:11 am
Thanks for listening Vurt. What do you suggest to develop, because i'm not sure what you mean when you say that? Thanks.
at the moment there's a lot of repetition, play around with the beats a bit, adding fills, changing rythym here and there
flesh them out a bit :)
Thanks vurt! :)

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