RePro-5 Questions

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I picked up a Rev 4, and as a result I've been spending a lot of time with RePro-5 lately. Not necessarily A/B'ing but reprogramming patches from one to the other and vice versa and just generally enjoying both. Listening to the details, a few things have stuck out that I had questions about.

1. OSC B Fine Tune...oddly, it seems like the closest to actual center-pitch value for this knob is -15.00. So that when the knob is at 0.00 it's already sharp. No voice seems perfectly in tune, which you wouldn't expect [and the Voice Detune knob impacts that further], but -15 seems the most in tune with Voice Detune at minimum. Just curious why the minimum knob value wasn't chosen as center pitch or the noon position?

2. On to the Voice Detune knob, am I correct in that it only impacts pitch and doesn't also say add some slop to the filter cutoff frequency against various voices, and/or the envelope timings? I'm only hearing pitch changes. Would be cool to be able to slop up the filter cutoff and resonance a bit as well as add voice variations for the envelope timings. Maybe a future enhancement to the Tweaks panel?

Otherwise, with the Vintage knob set close to max and the Rev 3 filter, I can get the two startlingly close to one other. Dialing in FM patches from one to the other is probably the toughest as I can get them close to one another, but frequently with very, very different knob and pitch values.

[Viktor [TUC]]

Hi Evil Twin,
About [1], I can't confirm here what you're observing, so maybe I should ask:
Are you starting from an init preset in Repro-5?
What's your reference in this case, I mean, what are you comparing it against when you say that -15 is the actual center pitch value?
About [2], Detune does also offset the filter cutoff frequency for the voices, but only when using the "Poly" filter model (the default one when starting with the init).

Viktor

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Hi Evil Twin,
About [1], I can't confirm here what you're observing, so maybe I should ask:
Are you starting from an init preset in Repro-5?
What's your reference in this case, I mean, what are you comparing it against when you say that -15 is the actual center pitch value?
About [2], Detune does also offset the filter cutoff frequency for the voices, but only when using the "Poly" filter model (the default one when starting with the init).

Viktor

#1 was total user error on my part. Guess who was using a patch where OSC B's coarse frequency was not set to 0.0 but was instead at 0.12? Looked centered!

[Viktor [TUC]]

That's a relief though, glad it was user error
(that smiley makes this sound more arrogant than I meant it, sorry)

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

That's a relief though, glad it was user error
(that smiley makes this sound more arrogant than I meant it, sorry)

No worries, I'd prefer user error too. I don't remember creating my own INIT patch for the test (or maybe I moved the knob without realizing), but I saved the project and reopened it and sure enough, it was off just a tad. I just thought it was an odd design choice. Like maybe that was chosen to increase the range it would go sharp.

After your reply, I did have a play with the filter cutoff+voice detuned doing round robin allocation on the same note with some self resonance and keytracking. The poly filter definitely reacts to voice detune knob; it's just way more subtle than Sequential is doing with even minimal "Vintage knob" tweaks. Not a knock on RePro, just a difference. You really hear the filter cutoff tweaks with the Voice Detune above the center point (it's almost inaudible with low values), but at that point you're so out of tune it only really works with Unison on.

The envelope slop is also a big thing with the Vintage knob on the hardware. At the 3 setting (what they're calling their Rev 3 setting) you can clearly start to hear some timing differences in the envelopes, at the 2 setting, the envelopes and tuning are really loose where one voice will suddenly decay much faster than others and be audibly out of tune, at 1 it's a Boards of Canada machine. Nothing's in tune, the timings are all over the place. RePro lines up at or near the rev 4 setting on the Vintage knob, which is it's tightest setting.

So my only other thoughts really are, would be cool to eventually see some additional slop type controls on the Tweaks page for envelope timing and filter response to "loosen" things up further in RePro. Just a minor wishlist item.

[e-crooner]

I was just comparing different demo versions and was surprised to find that R5 doesn't seem to have free-running oscillators. When I try to get the same sound out of Retrologue, I get closest when I set osc 1 to a fixed phase of about 180°, and osc 2 to random phase (which is not the same as free). Does that make any sense? I always thought that old analog synths had free-running oscillators, until DCO's came along.

[Urs]

R5 doesn't seem to have free-running oscillators.

I suspect user error, e.g. confusing the non-round-robin voice assignment of the Prophet-5 for a lack of expected randomness in oscillator phase of subsequent notes perceived in synths with round-robin voice assignment.

[e-crooner]

R5 doesn't seem to have free-running oscillators.

I suspect user error, e.g. confusing the non-round-robin voice assignment of the Prophet-5 for a lack of expected randomness in oscillator phase of subsequent notes perceived in synths with round-robin voice assignment.

I don't know about that. I merely started with the factory init patch.

[e-crooner]

I found the voice reallocation switch. Which mode did the hardware use?

[Viktor [TUC]]

That would be with voice reallocation ON, in Repro-5.

[e-crooner]

That would be with voice reallocation ON, in Repro-5.

OK

Or did the hardware have both modes? Just wondering because of what someone wrote here:

"It's awesome that both modes are available/switchable on P5."

https://forum.sequential.com/index.php?topic=4922.0

[Urs]

Certainly not on the vintage kind. Maybe on the Prophet 5 rev 4?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I found the voice reallocation switch. Which mode did the hardware use?

Just to expand, the Prophet-5 had weird voice assignment logic where (something like) if the first voice you played was the middle C on the keyboard, any time you played that note again, it would try to assign that to voice 1 (doesn't always work that way because voice 1 may be assigned to another note already in use, but it tries). And if the second note you played was the D above that, it would assign that to voice 2 and try to reallocate that voice in the future whenever that particular note was held if available. So you don't get round robin voice assignment on a Prophet 5 Rev's 1-3. It tries to use up the same voices as often as it can.

This will also effect voice stealing, because let's say Voice 1 was assigned to C4 and A3, and you were holding down A3, let go, had a long release, then played a C4, that A3 would cut out as Voice 1 would get reassigned to C4.

And the calibration of any of those voices can be slightly off. So like the tuning of voice 1 can be slightly flat, and voice 2 slightly sharp, the filter cutoff may not be exactly on pitch, etc. You'd very frequently end up having those notes be slightly flat/sharp on repeated playing due to the voice allocation method.

Someone who knows more feel free to correct whichever parts of that were wrong.

Certainly not on the vintage kind. Maybe on the Prophet 5 rev 4?

And yes, the new Rev. 4 lets you do the P5-style voice allocation but they added Round Robin in a later firmware update, which is nice.

[AnX]

amateur

[Mod Remark: Please do not keep reporting this post. Apparently, KVR decided to cope with people who have been permanently banned under previous accounts, such as this one. If people are unhappy with their conduct in their current incarnation as forum members, please report them to actual moderators - only they can make such decisions -, e.g. in the Site Stuff forum or by PM to a site moderator. As moderators of a company forum we're merely guests here and we'd like to keep moderation as lean as possible, i.e. in this instance I'd only mod this if it was reported by the person affected. The underlying issue of lenience to members with a questionable kind of humour can't be resolved by moderators of company forums. There's also a mute option to cancel out the noise.]

apologies, the reply was to this remark

And f**k KVR. Amateurs.

i got the users mixed up, my bad

feel free to delete, or report to a real mod and apply for a ban.

[Urs]

Deleted.

(I won't do anything. I'm just the guy who's placed between people who apparently can't control their lust for triggers and those who take offense with that. So it takes up my time and I'd prefer that people would take their issues elsewhere.)