I sampled a piano. Which software editor/tool for automatic editing? Free/paid?

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)
KVRer
10 posts since 29 Nov, 2020 from HellSinKey, Finland

Post Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:47 am

I sampled a digital piano in a local library and want to make a playable instrument out of the files (for my personal use only, for practicing piano playing). In the library there is Ableton Live 10 for which I made a midi file that played through all the 88 notes of the piano with 15 different velocities. So there are 1320 recorded notes in total. One note is one measure/bar long and after each note there is a one-quarter break. The BPM was at 20. So each note became about 12 seconds long.

I recorded the piano with my Zoom H4n Pro in stereo. Quality: 96 kHz / 24 bit. There are several files which are about 2 GB each. The H4n divided the recordings automatically like that.

1. So now I need to somehow generate 1320 separate files which are named (maybe) to something like this: A0_velo-01, A0_velo-02, A0_velo-03... C#1_velo-01, C#1_velo-02, C#1_velo-03... etc. etc...

2. And then make a playable piano out of those files.

So, my questions are, is there a software editor/tool which can automate the kind of process which I described above (1.)? (and automatically remove the silent parts and make fade ins/outs)
I'm thinking I would need to give the editor some info and preset parameters and it would then generate those individual note files. Is there such software/editor/tool? Even a free one? Or recommend a good paid one.

And the 2nd part... recommend a VST sample player -instrument which can handle 15 different layers on one key and is easy to use... or does this kind of job with ease. Any free? No? Then paid?

I'm checking later today or tomorrow if the free Kontakt player can do this. If not, what other free sample player VST instruments are there that might do the job?

ps. I just bought Cubase 11 Pro a week ago (with the price of the Artist). I already checked the HALion Sonic SE which came with it but it can only take 4 layers on one key. And I'm guessing I would probably need WaveLab for the editing/cutting part and Cubase doesn't do this kind of stuff?
Last edited by Cypsilonib on Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

NTO
KVRist
349 posts since 8 Feb, 2011

Post Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:50 am

I use Audacity (free) for item 1. 'Sound Finder' to split and remove silent areas. Naming not so flexible, but notes by octave - bulk rename after.
Fade in/out macros are available to apply for files in a directory. Not too familiar with those though.

KVRer

Topic Starter

10 posts since 29 Nov, 2020 from HellSinKey, Finland

Post Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:05 am

Thank you for the recommendation NTO, I will check it out.

KVRAF
1666 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:49 am

Pretty much any sampler should be able to handle #2. There is a method for splitting files in Ableton's sampler. I found Audacity easier as I wound up splitting manually. Following naming conventions when you split the files will help when you load them into a sampler. I'm not 100% sure what those are, but I'm pretty sure it includes the note (e.g., A#0) and starting velocity (e.g., 97). Look around.

KVRer

Topic Starter

10 posts since 29 Nov, 2020 from HellSinKey, Finland

Post Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:11 am

Ok, tomorrow I will install Audacity and see what can I do with it, thanks!

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KVRAF
5833 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:14 am

For both look for Decent Sampler and its tutorials.
This might get you started:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6wprMToxSg

This thread is in the wrong forum, ask the mods to move it to the sampler forum…

KVRAF
1666 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:35 am

There's no visual editor for Decent Sampler? I am super happy there's a new basic cross-platform sampler (it scales!). XML editing. It will certainly teach you the basics.

BTW OP. Logic's (10.5 or better, or older Mainstage) Autosampler makes this super easy if you're just looking to sample digital instruments. Maybe the library has that on hand.

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KVRer
11 posts since 21 Jun, 2013 from Germany

Post Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:05 am

2 GB files are a bit too big for the program, but Session 2 WAV can cut and name sample sessions. With Bjoern's Sample Mapper you can then create SFZ files from them (also graphically and also with many velocity zones).

Nevertheless, the real art at the end will not necessarily be the mass of samples, but the mapping and sorting out and evaluating of the individual samples. I would do that directly in the sampler, for example in Logic's EXS24 or Sampler. That takes time in the end...

KVRist
400 posts since 15 Apr, 2020

Post Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:16 am

I would go with the David Hilowith tutorial as a beginner, really a good guide.

KVRer

Topic Starter

10 posts since 29 Nov, 2020 from HellSinKey, Finland

Post Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:34 am

Hey, nice, thanks all for the recommendations!

First about Audacity. I tried it and the best result was that I managed to cut individual notes to separate files automatically, but...

I made it using these functions: Analyze / 'Label Sounds...' ('Sound Finder' is nowadays called 'Label Sounds...') ...and then --> Export / 'Export Multiple...' --> Result was that it generated individual wav files like I wanted, but all the sounds had 11-12 ms of silence before them and I couldn't get the silences any shorter with any settings.

I think I will now try some of the other suggestions that have been made in here since they seem more promising.

Tj Shredder, thanks, I watched the videon and that seems like perfect combination for me now: Decent Sampler + Reaper (60 days free trial and not even that pricey, if I get excited about this sampling stuff and want to buy Reaper). I already installed Decent Sampler and downloaded several free pianos from pianobook.co.uk, and realised that now I wouldn't probably even have to make my own piano sample player, but I ain't stopping now, I wanna learn this stuff. Now I'm thinking I will next sample the acoustic drums that are in the same space where the digital piano is (and put the result somewhere for free download and use. maybe in pianobook?). And yeah, gonna ask the mods to move this thread to the correct forum after this post.

jonljacobi, funny coincidence, today I was at another local library and it's music studio has Logic Pro (10.6.3, I think). I was using it and suddenly decided to take a break and take a look at this thread if there was any new suggestions and then saw your post. I just quickly looked Logics help section about the Autosampler but didn't have patience to learn it since I was doing other stuff. I just bought Cubase Pro 11 and think I will use time to learn to do stuff with it (and other programs that can be installed on windows 10). Or do you happen to know if the Autosampler results could be converted/exported to some other format which I could use in Win10/Cubase?

mrbbojahr, thanks, Session 2 WAV and Sample Mapper might be just the programs I need now (also). Next to check out those.

ps. oh yeah, I also just found these free samplers today, Grace by One Small Clue and TX16Wx Software Sampler by CWITEC. Can I do the things I mentioned above with these samplers?
Last edited by Cypsilonib on Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

NTO
KVRist
349 posts since 8 Feb, 2011

Post Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:23 am

'Sound Finder' is nowadays called 'Label Sounds...
Guess that happened after the 3.0 release.
Audacity_3_SoundFinderSettings.jpg
Anyway - good luck in your efforts.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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fmr
KVRAF
10083 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:40 am

Too many notes and too many velocities, IMO. You could get a really good sampled instrument with half of that or even less. The most important part of the sound comes from the sampler engine, NOT the samples. Until you define WHICH SAMPLER are you working with, and learn to program instruments in it, everything else risks to be useless work.
Fernando (FMR)

KVRer

Topic Starter

10 posts since 29 Nov, 2020 from HellSinKey, Finland

Post Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:14 am

fmr, yeah, I was already thinking about that by myself too. And when I watched the David Hilowitz video posted above, I was thinking if I could use the same kind of technique as he was using to sustain the violin sound by adding loop points to the notes/files with Reaper.

I think I will start now exploring the possibilities with the combination of Decent Sampler + Reaper. And at the same time look into what I can do with TX16Wx Software Sampler by CWITEC. Heh, and Session 2 WAV and Sample Mapper.

KVRAF
1520 posts since 19 Mar, 2008 from germany

Post Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:49 pm

Cypsilonib wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:47 am
2. And then make a playable piano out of those files.

And the 2nd part... recommend a VST sample player -instrument which can handle 15 different layers on one key and is easy to use... or does this kind of job with ease. Any free? No? Then paid?
Automating the second part is not a good idea in my opinion.
Because all "automation specialists" ultimately create a
rudimentary code that can only be used in the rarest of cases.
Troubleshooting alone takes a lot of time. :cry:

It is better to do the mapping for a sampler by hand - and after
a short familiarization you can be pretty quick with it. :wink:

Which format & sampler?

If I want to construct a sample set, which format should I
use then? Answer: The best is the format that:

  • is relatively widespread and known.
  • for which there are most samplers who "understand" the format.
  • is easy to edit (e.g. with any text editor).
  • is not hindered by proprietary restrictions.


----> And this format is - Tataaaang : SFZ

On the page here you can find all information about SFZ and
many examples of how it can be used. :tu:

These samplers understand SFZ: Click here .
The TX16W, for example, also understands sfz, in my opinion the
best are "sforzando" and "sfizz". There are also some conversion
tools here.

----> If you're bothering to build a new sample set, why not use the
truly universal SFZ format? In my opinion, that would make the most
sense.
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs + weird stuff: enroe.de

KVRAF
13010 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:53 pm

Not to discourage you from instrument building, but unless you're really interested in it and want to do that for fun (and/or profit), there are a huge number of free pianos available on the internet that will undoubtedly be better than your first effort at building a sampled instrument. This is especially true if you want to use it to practice piano as it will simply be more consistent.

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