24 Synth Supersaw Comparison

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRAF
29964 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:15 am

keel wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:12 pm
dvnation wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:37 am
But which one is the JP, A or B?
A is 8080, B is clearly soft sounding.
Actually... I would have said that it's the other way around. I think B is the JP-8k.
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KVRAF
10536 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:23 am

chk071 wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:15 am
keel wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:12 pm
dvnation wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:37 am
But which one is the JP, A or B?
A is 8080, B is clearly soft sounding.
Actually... I would have said that it's the other way around. I think B is the JP-8k.
Me too, actually. The detail that led to me to that is the fact the envelope has a faster attack.
Fernando (FMR)

KVRist
294 posts since 18 Jul, 2021

Post Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:39 am

the main difference between the two in the examples seems to be how the envelopes respond: possibly an exponential vs linear thing. that's largely why i expected hive to be A.

and that the so-called "softer" one is the jp.

KVRAF
29964 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:50 am

Yeah.

Well, maybe dvnation will clear it up one day. ;)
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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Urs
u-he
26013 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:00 am

Ploki wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:49 am
pixel85 wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:56 pm
JP6K has aliasing. It has specially simulated aliasing of JP8000/8080 which is a godfather of SuperSaws. That synth (original hardware) was used to create the first track that made SuperSaw famous (System F - Out of the blue) :)

Aliasing is actually part of the "classic sound of supersaw". Access Virus quickly became 2nd "best synth" for SuperSaw/HyperSaw. If I remember correctly, Virus has 96k SR so it can avoid (most of) aliasing.
About plugins, I remember that Spire sounded waaaay better in 96k projects (huge audible difference). Today most plugins use oversampling for SuperSaws to avoid aliasing I guess?
Diva has a switch for the JP8000 module which disables oversampling, to get aliasing :)
That's actually only half of the truth. There's an "anti-aliased" switch on the UI which completely changes the way the oscillator works. You still get the same waveforms, but some are rendered by bandlimited wavetables (like Zebra, Hive) while the feedback-waveform IIRC is the only one that gets oversampling instead.

I would not expect Hive's oscillators to sound similar to the JP. The JP has a richer (due to noise) sound, while Hive is quite a bit more HiFi sounding by design, and probably a bit more organic due to constantly but slowly shifting pitch relations. However, yes, the filter in Hive is very likely to sound rather close to the JP, whereas filters in Diva naturally do not (there is no digital filter option in Diva). Can't say anything about JP envelopes, I only ever had a borrowed unit and it's long gone...

- U

KVRian
1423 posts since 26 Jun, 2002 from London, UK

Post Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:57 am

recursive one wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:43 am
AnX wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:24 am
IIRC, D3 has a specific osc detune mode that emulates the jp8000 supersaw.... bit fuzzy on the details, and may be wrong....
I think it was Swarm.
I indeed prefer it to other detune modes when it comes to making the classic oldschool "tarnce" stuff.
IIRC then it's the nonlinear mode that emulates the detune of the JP8K. SWARM is a newer model of Richard's own design.
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Banned
203 posts since 13 Jul, 2021

Post Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:27 am

cytospur wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:57 am

IIRC then it's the nonlinear mode that emulates the detune of the JP8K. SWARM is a newer model of Richard's own design.
I think you are right cytospur.
The JP-8000 Super Saw had a unique detune curve. It was non-linear.

KVRist
183 posts since 31 Aug, 2020

Post Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:51 am

I like the supersaws on Diva the most, fluffy and lush. Works well with the oberheim filter type. There's even and init patch for this configuration.
For thinner supersaws there are many similar options

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KVRist
80 posts since 25 Dec, 2010

Post Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:34 am

I have a JP-8080. While I don’t use the JP supersaw in my music, I still appreciate its sound and I like making JP supersaw-style patches on every synth I get my hands on. It’s actually how I test synths out - “can this do a supersaw?” - pass/fail. I don’t know about you, but when I hear the word “supersaw” I think of the OG JP supersaw and the way it was used in trance music. It has a very distinctive sound.

So here I go testing out Hive, and I easily build a very JP-ish supersaw patch in what seemed like seconds. It wasn’t just about detuning saws and stopping there. The way the filter interacts with the resonance and the envelopes - HIVE does the classic JP supersaw sound the right way. After doing plenty of A/B-ing I came to the conclusion that HIVE does the JP supersaw "sound" more authentically than anything else I tried. HIVE does it how the JP does it, and whatever differences they have are sonically insignificant.

So anyway, in my opinion, HIVE is the closest we’ll get to that complete JP supersaw sound in software until Roland release their version.

https://soundcloud.com/hurricaneaudiola ... hesia-lead

https://soundcloud.com/hurricaneaudiolab/supersaws

KVRAF
29964 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:21 am

dvnation wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:34 am
I have a JP-8080. While I don’t use the JP supersaw in my music, I still appreciate its sound and I like making JP supersaw-style patches on every synth I get my hands on. It’s actually how I test synths out - “can this do a supersaw?” - pass/fail. I don’t know about you, but when I hear the word “supersaw” I think of the OG JP supersaw and the way it was used in trance music. It has a very distinctive sound.

So here I go testing out Hive, and I easily build a very JP-ish supersaw patch in what seemed like seconds. It wasn’t just about detuning saws and stopping there. The way the filter interacts with the resonance and the envelopes - HIVE does the classic JP supersaw sound the right way. After doing plenty of A/B-ing I came to the conclusion that HIVE does the JP supersaw "sound" more authentically than anything else I tried. HIVE does it how the JP does it, and whatever differences they have are sonically insignificant.

So anyway, in my opinion, HIVE is the closest we’ll get to that complete JP supersaw sound in software until Roland release their version.

https://soundcloud.com/hurricaneaudiola ... hesia-lead

https://soundcloud.com/hurricaneaudiolab/supersaws
Can you clear up which one was A, and which one was B in your example earlier?
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRian
1180 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Karlshamn, Sweden

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:16 am

dvnation wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:39 am
steffensen wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:04 am
dvnation wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:37 am
But which one is the JP, A or B?
Oh, B of course. 🙂
Care to elaborate? :wink:

I think Hive emulates the JP supersaw the best and the most authentic. Filter/resonance behavior is sooooo close. And it even does the infamous clicks.
Sorry for the late reply, been busy.
B - sounds just more hardware to my ears. (i know its a forbidden wording to use)
Its just fuller, richer, a lot more sparkle on top, more raw to the tone.

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KVRAF
3427 posts since 22 Aug, 2019

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:20 am

What's that bright, almost white-noise sound? Is it deliberate?

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KVRAF
11372 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:08 am

Urs wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:00 am
The JP has a richer (due to noise) sound…
I often suspect a major difference between software and hardware has to do with noise.
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Urs
u-he
26013 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:53 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:08 am
Urs wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:00 am
The JP has a richer (due to noise) sound…
I often suspect a major difference between software and hardware has to do with noise.
Of course. Noise makes things "3D" because it works a little bit like reverb.

In case of the JP, the supersaw is extra noisy due to aliasing. They partly mask it out by highpass filtering below the fundamental, but it certainly adds to the character of the osc.

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KVRAF
11372 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:06 am

Urs wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:53 am
zerocrossing wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:08 am
Urs wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:00 am
The JP has a richer (due to noise) sound…
I often suspect a major difference between software and hardware has to do with noise.
Of course. Noise makes things "3D" because it works a little bit like reverb.

In case of the JP, the supersaw is extra noisy due to aliasing. They partly mask it out by highpass filtering below the fundamental, but it certainly adds to the character of the osc.
Interesting to hear you say that, because the next part of my totally unscientific theory was that the noise is what people are talking about when they say a hardware synth sounds “3D.” I attributed it to being something like the “tooth” of drawing paper. The noise provides a sort of “canvas” for the sonic “paint” to adhere to. I don’t really have the scientific terminology to describe what I’m talking about, as I was an art major and did pretty terribly in all my coding classes. My mind loves science but I’m terrible at math.
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